5th A330 for Brussels Airlines

[LX-LGX]

The Dubai plan has been shelved. Because of a delay in delivery of the second A380, they will immediately introduce a service to JNB; initially 3 times per week and with delivery of the third a daily rotation.

Indeed, Air France has changed plans last week. On 26th October, Flight Global wrote that Dubai would be served with A380 as from 18th January 2010. But a week later, Airbus apparently announced the delay. The first A380 flight to Johannesburg is now set for 3 February 2010 (initially planned for end of March 2010).

[LX-LGX]

Simulation:
BRU 16:00 - AAA 22:30
AAA 23:30 - BRU 06:00
Daily inspection / operational margin
BRU 07:00 - GVA 08:00
GVA 08:30 - BRU 09:30
BRU 10:00 - FCO 12:00
FCO 12:30 - BRU 14:30
Check / light defects / operational margin
BRU 16:00 - to Africa

LOS/OUA/ACC/ABV/KAN/LFW/NIM/AJY/NDJ/ABJ/CKY/BKO/FNA/COO/KRT/PHC/NKC can work on this schedule. You can add 2 x daily to DKR and shift a A333 to JIB or some other place.
Add 30 minutes for the African flight, shorten the 2nd shorthaul flight and you can add:
ROB/BGF/NSI/DLA/SSG/LBV
Eventually shift the A333 doing DLA-FIH to non-stop or triangle with FBM.
All within operational range of post-2000 A319 with sufficient margin, some with spare room for cargo.

In no time, SN will have an important network and can start thinking of feeding from Asia and North America.

I'm not familiar with Microsoft's Flight Simulator, but trust it will accept such mess. However, if you would work at Brussels Airlines' Head Office (or any other airline) and present such draft, they will ask you to give in your badge and leave the company.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Ncb,

Let me remind you of the definition of a high yield Market:

A high yield Market is either a destination where there is low supply
and high demand (connecting flights are high supply even though they
are not as attractive for high paying passengers),or a Market where
there is a high % of business pax, or a Market where ties between the
city-pairs is high, or finally a market that has low weight, low
volume time sensitive cargo with little competing supply of cargo space towards that destination..

JNB out of BRU does not in any way fit the definition of high yield
Market! FIH on the other hand like many other African SN destinations
fits the bill.

That's why I'm as sceptical for most destinations in people's wish
list outside Africa! The Market is just not big enough for either SN
or any foreign company wishing to serve BRU..

Airlines have huge databases that breakdown exactly where passengers
final destination is, how much they've been paying and how frequently
they are travelling amongst others. Imagine a database that includes
all lh airlines together with interline passengers!

If any airline decides to fly to a particular destination it probably
knows what it is doing unless they are incompetent or politically
motived. I know nothing about how SN works from the inside but
strongly assume that they have competent business analysts!

Airports have exactly the same tools although I'm pretty sure they
don't collect airline fares. Instead they know who goes where for
every airline that flies out of a particular airport.

My point is that LH probably knows with a few assumptions on top of
the data they have (ie to include other airlines from different alliances) the size of the
Market between BRU and JNB for example.

BRU knows as well with a lot more certainty.

So if both work together which I'm sure they do (may be mistaken) you
got a powerful team able to realize the potential for mature markets, and with a little more uncertainty the potential for not so mature markets.

[Airbus330lover]

and why not an A332 ?
Air comet is in big trouble and they have 4 332 (recent birds) and 2 343 (old birds)

[NCB]

However, if you would work at Brussels Airlines' Head Office (or any other airline) and present such draft, they will ask you to give in your badge and leave the company.

We're at it again, I only see your conclusion.. Where is your argument, your analysis?
I don't see anything wrong in the proposed schedule... enough down time for daily mx inspection, sufficient down time for rotations 30-45 minutes intra-European, 60 minutes Africa.
Maximum aircraft utilisation, but sufficient operational margin.
4 intra-European sectors flown by one crew, second crew flying the outbound sector to Africa, a third crew flying the inbound sector from Africa. Crew rest times rather easy to manage, outbound crew to Africa have 24 hours rest time until next duty working a red eye after an evening flight which is the best scenario with regards to getting into a red-eye.
Connections to/from the U.S. are possible on this schedule.
All-A319 fleet, operationally interchangeable, very easy to manage, possibility to keep a spare aircraft.

Actually, this is a totally normal schedule. Letting aircraft sleep on the apron at night is not efficient.

Air Comet had 4 A332's (2 old + 2 newer ones) but one has been placed with an Indonesian carrier. This same carrier also took an ex-EI A332 from ILFC.
Now there's only three left, but comes the question of the condition of the aircraft since IB refused to do any MX on them until they pay their bills.

[jan_olieslagers]

However, if you would work at Brussels Airlines' Head Office (or any other airline) and present such draft, they will ask you to give in your badge and leave the company.

Where is your argument, your analysis?

If you don't see it, I do:

I'm not familiar with Microsoft's Flight Simulator, but trust it will accept such mess.

Doesn't that say enough? No, not for you, of course.

[134flyer]

We're at it again, I only see your conclusion.. Where is your argument, your analysis?

Yes, we're at it again; you are still trying to prove that "the world is flat, that Martians exist, etc" and that others have to prove that it ain't so... You conveniently ignore every valuable counter-argument made by others, but jump all over anybody who makes the slightest mistake...

I don't see anything wrong in the proposed schedule... enough down time for daily mx inspection, sufficient down time for rotations 30-45 minutes intra-European, 60 minutes Africa.
Maximum aircraft utilisation, but sufficient operational margin.
4 intra-European sectors flown by one crew, second crew flying the outbound sector to Africa, a third crew flying the inbound sector from Africa. Crew rest times rather easy to manage, outbound crew to Africa have 24 hours rest time until next duty working a red eye after an evening flight which is the best scenario with regards to getting into a red-eye.
Connections to/from the U.S. are possible on this schedule.
All-A319 fleet, operationally interchangeable, very easy to manage, possibility to keep a spare aircraft.

Let's suppose this Grandiose schedule will be put to work and let's just have a look at only the following situation; either the intra-European flights will be operated by A319's with an inflexible configuration with flat bed Business Class seats, or the AFI flights will be operated with A319's with a normal intra-Euro configuration; i.e. business class consisting of normal economy seats with middle seat blocked. Both variants WILL NOT WORK!

[NCB]

JNB out of BRU does not in any way fit the definition of high yield
Market! FIH on the other hand like many other African SN destinations
fits the bill.

My turn to teach... defending an agenda is not that easy.

You hit the nail on the head with low weight, low volume, time-sensitive cargo... you have said it yourself!
South Africa is world's number one diamond producer, JNB is Africa's largest diamond trading city, Antwerp is world's largest diamond trading center. 50% of all cut diamond goes through Antwerp.
Have you ever heard of De Beers? Probably not, otherwise your own post would not make sense to you.
It's world's largest diamond manufacturing company with headquartes in JNB and a 50% share of the global market.

Alone with this low weight, low volume, security and time sensitive cargo, you can already make a bunch of money. VG also carries diamonds between ANR and LCY from time to time, high-yield.

Then there's the diamond and gold business people who travel between both cities, very high-yield.
There is some travelling from NYC (world 2nd most important diamond trading center), who can also connect through BRU, good for SN and Star.

Not only that, JNB is a hot selling tourist destination and you can connect pax from all over Europe...

Worldwide there are two main headquarters of the diamond industry, apart from other minor and local centres.
Antwerp is the largest diamond trading centre and South Africa is the largest diamond producing country. Annually the World Diamond Conference takes place in Antwerp and diamond purchasers and distributors pour into the city to buy and sell diamonds.
Down to the present day the majority of diamond mines are localised in South Africa. One of the main reasons for this fact is, that De Beers, the biggest diamond company, has its headquarters in South Africa.

The world’s diamond centre
April 28, 2009

Antwerp, with 500.000 inhabitants the second largest city in Belgium.
The city is the undisputed diamond capital of the world. In the city’s diamond district there are no less than 2,500 seperate companies connected in various ways with diamonds. With an annual turnover of 23billion US dollars Antwerp still remains the most important diamond trade centre in the world.
In brief, more than 85% of the world’s rough diamonds, 50% of cut diamonds and 40% of industrial diamonds are traded in the city. Moreover the diamond sector accounts for 7% of Belgium’s total exports. Today’s stones are mined primarily in Africa, but Antwerp’s diamond industry claims to trade just clean and conflict-free diamonds.

http://conflictdiamonds.wordpress.com/

Now suddenly BRU-JNB sounds so obvious, doesn't it?

either the intra-European flights will be operated by A319's with an inflexible configuration with flat bed Business Class seats, or the AFI flights will be operated with A319's with a normal intra-Euro configuration; i.e. business class consisting of normal economy seats with middle seat blocked. Both variants WILL NOT WORK!

A valid argument, but I have already answered it previously (I know that it's not fun to go through the previous posts).
It would be far more interesting to configure all A319's in an Africa configuration.

That would mean the wider lie-flat seats even on European sectors instead of the empty seat in-between. That would be a true seller for business class and seats can be sold at higher fares than the empty-seat in-between. If economy class is not full, you can get an empty-seat-in-between at 5 times less the price, so that concept itself is obsolete.
For the shorthaul sectors it's nice for those business pax who had a tough day, they don't neet to lean on the hard window panels to have a nap, they can just recline their seats into a comfortable position and have a very good nap.
For marketing you can call it Business Plus or whatever, as long as business pax don't get upset when they get the empty seat in between on the RJ's.

[JOVAN]

Ncb,

Let me remind you of the definition of a high yield Market:

A high yield Market is either a destination where there is low supply
and high demand (connecting flights are high supply even though they
are not as attractive for high paying passengers),or a Market where
there is a high % of business pax, or a Market where ties between the
city-pairs is high, or finally a market that has low weight, low
volume time sensitive cargo with little competing supply of cargo space towards that destination..

JNB out of BRU does not in any way fit the definition of high yield
Market! FIH on the other hand like many other African SN destinations
fits the bill.

That's why I'm as sceptical for most destinations in people's wish
list outside Africa! The Market is just not big enough for either SN
or any foreign company wishing to serve BRU..

Airlines have huge databases that breakdown exactly where passengers
final destination is, how much they've been paying and how frequently
they are travelling amongst others. Imagine a database that includes
all lh airlines together with interline passengers!

If any airline decides to fly to a particular destination it probably
knows what it is doing unless they are incompetent or politically
motived. I know nothing about how SN works from the inside but
strongly assume that they have competent business analysts!

Airports have exactly the same tools although I'm pretty sure they
don't collect airline fares. Instead they know who goes where for
every airline that flies out of a particular airport.

My point is that LH probably knows with a few assumptions on top of
the data they have (ie to include other airlines from different alliances) the size of the
Market between BRU and JNB for example.

BRU knows as well with a lot more certainty.

So if both work together which I'm sure they do (may be mistaken) you
got a powerful team able to realize the potential for mature markets, and with a little more uncertainty the potential for not so mature markets.

Dear Vinnie,
The fact that SN has a loadfactor which is constantly 10 to 15% below that of the nearest competitors,
and BRU has lost ( in %) almost double as much PAX as other EU Airports,
proves to me they are not doing a good job.

Maybe they look too much at statistics.

How about if they would replace the 'bureaucratic' approach with a more entrepreneurial attitude.

Listen to my simple explanation, as a business-man:
You have a good product, you don't tell anybody and you stay in your office studying statistics: you sell something, but far below the potential.

Or you hit the road, travel the world, visit and convince prospects and customers, create the market..

[134flyer]

A valid argument, but I have already answered it previously (I know that it's not fun to go through the previous posts).

Yes, I know you already answered that, and it ain't fun either to read your same stubborn posts over and over again...

That would mean the wider lie-flat seats even on European sectors instead of the empty seat in-between. That would be a true seller for business class and seats can be sold at higher fares than the empty-seat in-between. If economy class is not full, you can get an empty-seat-in-between at 5 times less the price, so that concept itself is obsolete.
For the shorthaul sectors it's nice for those business pax who had a tough day, they don't neet to lean on the hard window panels to have a nap, they can just recline their seats into a comfortable position and have a very good nap.
For marketing you can call it Business Plus or whatever, as long as business pax don't get upset when they get the empty seat in between on the RJ's.

I don't know what planet you're from (Mars?), so you might not be aware that there's a massive economic crisis going on and that there has been an enormous reduction in sales of Business Class seats recently? So who exactly is going to buy these even higher priced business class tickets for these relatively short intra Euro flights??!! If this concept is so great, why haven't LH, BA, AF etc introduced it already way before the economic crisis instead of sticking to the 'middle-seat blocked' concept??!! Because then they would have a fleet with a highly inflexible seat configuration!!

[LX-LGX]

... South Africa is world's number one diamond producer, JNB is Africa's largest diamond trading city, Antwerp is world's largest diamond trading center. 50% of all cut diamond goes through Antwerp.
... Have you ever heard of De Beers? Probably not, otherwise your own post would not make sense to you.
It's world's largest diamond manufacturing company with headquartes in JNB and a 50% share of the global market...
... Alone with this low weight, low volume, security and time sensitive cargo, you can already make a bunch of money. VG also carries diamonds between ANR and LCY from time to time, high-yield.
... Then there's the diamond and gold business people who travel between both cities, very high-yield. There is some travelling from NYC (world 2nd most important diamond trading center), who can also connect through BRU, good for SN and Star.
... Worldwide there are two main headquarters of the diamond industry, apart from other minor and local centres.
... Antwerp is the largest diamond trading centre and South Africa is the largest diamond producing country. Annually the World Diamond Conference takes place in Antwerp and diamond purchasers and distributors pour into the city to buy and sell diamonds.
... Down to the present day the majority of diamond mines are localised in South Africa. One of the main reasons for this fact is, that De Beers, the biggest diamond company, has its headquarters in South Africa.

If the webmasters allows a bit off topic discussion:

once again, NCB, you don't know which information is relevant and which isn't. And more important: you don't know which information on the net is reliable, and which information is commercial or promotional blablabla. Google tells you something you like, and there we go again.

1. De Beers Group has it's regional head office in South Africa (= in Kimberley), but actually, De Beers Group is a Luxemburg registered company: "De Beers Société Anonyme (DBsa)"

2. The key word you need for reliable diamond statistics is not "South Africa is number one for diamonds", but "Kimberley Process".

3. Some sources indeed say that South Africa is the number one for diamond. But actually, SA is only the 6th producer worldwide when calculated in kts and the 4th when calculated in USD. Russian Federation leads in kts-figures, Botswana (De Beers Group, indeed) leads in USD-figures. Full details (= production details):

https://mmsd.mms.nrcan.gc.ca/kimberleys ... 202008.pdf
https://mmsd.mms.nrcan.gc.ca/kimberleys ... 202008.pdf

4. Most important transport within De Beers is not done on SAA' flights to Europe or India, but with corporate jets (ex. Bombardier Global 5000)

5. VLM / City Jet is not doing regular diamond transports anymore. Don't look for details about these transports on the net, as you won't find it for obvious reasons.

So what's your next argument for a direct flight BRU-JNB-BRU ? "Belgians are banana top-eaters"?

[NCB]

Just asked some friends working in diamonds trade, JNB is De Beers' center of operations, no matter what is written on paper. Luxemburg and Switzerland are offices and have not been random choices for 'headquartering' the company but business is conducted through JNB and London mainly. Alot of buyers from Antwerp have to go through one of these business units to acquire their trades, but they have no business being in Luxemburg.

Alot of diamond passing through Antwerp is from Botswana and South Africa.

Your source is not accurate. South Africa is producing more than Australia and Canada as the production went around 15.8 million cts last year. Russia and Congo produce more but alot of it is industrial diamonds and don't come through Antwerp. Botswana has been beating the South African production in the last few years, that is true and I give you credit for that.

Business jets are being used sometimes, but airlines are still the biggest transporters of diamonds, people just dont' know who and where, it is kept secret for some reason. Airlines are more reliable than business jets, bizjet crews can disappear with the gems while that is not likely to happen with an airliner.
Don't worry LX, there's nothing secret about this:

Diamantroof op luchthaven Zaventem
25/11/'05 Bij Brucargo op Zaventem is donderdagavond een gewapende overval gepleegd bij het koeriersbedrijf Federal Express.
Dat meldt de VRT.

Omstreeks 21:00 uur vielen vier gewapende mannen het kantoor binnen. Een aantal werknemers van FedEx werd bedreigd, maar er vielen geen gewonden, zo luidt het. De politie voert een sporenonderzoek uit en heeft een klopjacht gehouden, maar de daders zijn vooralsnog spoorloos. Het gerecht wil niet kwijt hoe groot de buit is, maar volgens Het Journaal zou het gaan om een grote partij diamanten.

http://www.hbvl.be/Archief/guid/diamant ... 975b04ac00

and there:

De top van De Beers in Londen wees mij een aantal jaren geleden onomwonden op de absolute noodzaak van de luchthaven voor het vervoer van diamanten. Ook daarom moeten wij deze luchthaven koesteren. De diamantsector is enorm belangrijk voor onze regio (direct en indirect vele duizenden jobs).

http://www.wijzers.be/2005/03/dossier-l ... en-deurne/

[FLYAIR10]

Talking about BRU-JNB-BRU ,does anyone on this forum have info on the loadfactors of the Sabena-operation when they were part of the Swissair-group? Or LF of Sobelair when they operated 3Xweek to JNB?
I seem to remember that the SN LF was not too bad (+75?)although with low yields , and the SLR LF around 50% (also with low yields, but mostly with BRU-origin PAX, I presume)

Cargo B (and before hydro air)moved quite some cargo To/from JNB. There must be still significant demand for cargo capacity between JNB and Europe after they left the cargo-scene(unfortunately).

Considering the above elements , and expecting a boom in traffic next year,would there not be an opportunity to (re-)introduce a B-747 Combi operation between BRU and JNB? Would there not be a possibility to introduce 2 747-400M instead of the 4th A333(the one with the different engines) and 5th A33X ?
These combi's could also be used to FIH to increase cargo-capacity to that destination,and /or to those African SN-destinations where cargo is apparently bringing in more revenue than PAX?

Maybe this B-74M idea was already ventilated (and killed by the "professionals") on this forum earlier,but anyway that must have been some time ago and in the meantime market factors are likely to have changed...

Since cargo is important in the Africa operations,another idea could be to introduce a A332F...
Increasing cargo-capacity,filling a gap left behind by CargoB and from an aircraft commonality point of view probably relatively easy to insert in the SN-fleet...

Grtz.
Flyair10

[Vinnie-Winnie]

My turn to teach... defending an agenda is not that easy.

You hit the nail on the head with low weight, low volume, time-sensitive cargo... you have said it yourself!
South Africa is world's number one diamond producer, JNB is Africa's largest diamond trading city, Antwerp is world's largest diamond trading center. 50% of all cut diamond goes through Antwerp.
Have you ever heard of De Beers? Probably not, otherwise your own post would not make sense to you.
It's world's largest diamond manufacturing company with headquartes in JNB and a 50% share of the global market.

Yes I have. let me pick your brains here: Would you really only rely on one customer for the most profitable segment of your operations and Is the market large enough to warrant 2 to 3 flights a week based solely on Diamants, Gold, and some low yielding pax?

Not only that, JNB is a hot selling tourist destination and you can connect pax from all over Europe...

Very profitable market indeed on which you really can make a lot money! Get reel!

Now suddenly BRU-JNB sounds so obvious, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. I'm sure Belgian and European tourists get to South Africa just fine without a Belgian carrier, and I'm sure DeBeers manages to ship its Diamonds through other means with only minor inconvenience.

The fact that SN has a loadfactor which is constantly 10 to 15% below that of the nearest competitors,
and BRU has lost ( in %) almost double as much PAX as other EU Airports,
proves to me they are not doing a good job.

Proves that there factors which you either don't understand or don't want to understand which are outside SN's control or due to the Belgian and European market.

Maybe they look too much at statistics.

How about if they would replace the 'bureaucratic' approach with a more entrepreneurial attitude.

Listen to my simple explanation, as a business-man:
You have a good product, you don't tell anybody and you stay in your office studying statistics: you sell something, but far below the potential.

Do you have any idea how to do business? We're not in the market of selling a new variety of apples in a fruit store here. The cost of failing is huge in tranport.

I really don't know in wich business you work but you certainly are far far away from the business of passenger transportation.

[NCB]

Actually I am for SN operating B747 capacity into Africa.
LH has a B744 stored at FRA, maybe they are intending to use it for the WC2010... no idea.

AF is reducing CDG-JNB from 14 weekly to 11 weekly but switching from 14 x B77W's to 11 x A388B773's.
So it's not a net reduction.
After the WC2010 they will go back to 7 weekly A388... opening a window for other carriers.

Yields are going to be better than BOS, JFK or NRT, without doubt.

The A319 idea is on the plate, you either like or you don't. SN insiders have picked it up already I heard, I doubt it will ever come to fruition.
Those who like it or see an interest for similar reforms at SN are probably looking at today's realities of SN.
The others probably believe that it's all set and done with LH's 45% acquisition.
To tell you the truth I wasn't pleased to hear that the acquisition was partial but I preferred it to the idea of SN running out of cash after the winter... so basically there is a tumor(lack of cash), there's something to relieve the pain for a defined period (LH participation) but the tumor needs be treated to disappear.

Fresh idea's need be considered or else...

[Air Key West]

If my memory serves me right, the partial acquisition of SN by LH is not due to a lack of will from LH, but I seem to remember, on the contratry, that Stevie D. and the other shareholders did not want to let go of their baby in one go, and they probably expected to get more cash from LH in 2011 (bankers' speculation), but with the current economical crisis, they will be happy to get the minimum price offered by LH. But that is if my memory serves me right. I stand to be corrected.

As for a BRU JNB connection, it will only work, imho, if one day the LH Group needs extra capacity to JNB. Then, perhaps, LH will allow SN to fly to JNB or even CPT if there is enough demand, inter alia, also from other Star Alliance carriers that would feed the flight with connecting pax. The WC2010 is a very temporary event and I don't think SN has the capacity, at the moment, to take advantage of high demand for a very limited time.

As to the A319s to AFI, the only variation on this theme which might (I stress MIGHT) be considered, could be not to fly A319s but A320s on the model used by OS to fly to the Middle East, and MAYBE SN could use them to fly to Bamako, Ouaga and Niamey, and from there on to Lomé, Cotonou and Accra, in order to "occupy the field" while waiting for A330s to become available and/or having enough money to buy or lease more A330s. These flight would probably not be triangular flights, but would probably have to go, for instance BRU OUA ACC and back ACC OUA BRU. But even so, I'm not sure it is technically possible. And there is probably also the problem of being able to carry enough luggage and cargo on those A320s to these destinations. These A320s would only be used for AFI operations and certainly not for a mix Africa/Europe.
What do the real experts think of this ? As a Belgian, I am trying to find a compromise (aren't Belgian known for their compromises ?) between you, guys.

[NCB]

AKW, I have heard the same rumours and unofficial reason about the partial buy (more cash wanted by shareholders) but the official reason is as follows:

Lufthansa initially buys 45% of Brussels for EUR65 million. It plans to take the remaining 55% in 2011 when Belgian's bilateral air service agreements with non-EU countries are renegotiated to allow for foreign majority ownership. The acquisition price will depend on Brussels' financial performance in the next three year, but will not exceed EUR250 million, Lufthansa stated. Synergies are expected to be around EUR50 million from 2011 when the full takeover has been completed.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... S09158.xml

I don't know which one is true but shareholders know very well that SN will be weaker in 2011, so to propose the split-buy from their side would be non-productive, I believe.

A320 is actually what I had in mind in the beginning but I figured payload/range is going to be tough out of BRU for Sub-saharian.

You can also fly 3 sectors per day to Africa if Africa and intra-European destinations can't be operated by the same aircraft but I don't see why they can't.
U.S. airlines use their B757/767's by rotating them within their networks to maximise utilisation and flexibility (the right capacity for the right demand). They are used both for transatlantic and domestic. SQ do the same with their widebodies, (they don't have narrowbodies) so why should SN be ashamed to use narrowbodies both on short haul and mid haul?

[Air Key West]

It has been said before, A320s in an African configuration could not be used profitably for European operations (there is no demand for such a configuration in Europe), only perhaps for short intercontinental flights. Will you be indulgent with a non expert trying to show that AFI A320s cannot be used in Europe, as their African flight schedules would probably be something like (all times BRU times GMT+1)
BRU 1100 OUA 1600
OUA 1700 ACC 1830
ACC 2115 OUA 2245
OUA 2345 BRU 0500
and then on, for instance, on a similar (doesn't mean identical) scheme
BRU 1100 NIAMEY 1600
NIAMEY 1700 LFW 1830
and then back up North again via the same route, etc...
Couldn't the six hours' stay in BRU be usefully used for maintenance, cleaning, catering and all other things we may not be aware of ?
NOW LET'S HEAR FROM THE EXPERTS. I allow you to demolish all of this if you have strong arguments. No problem.

[LX-LGX]

The A319 idea is on the plate, you either like or you don't. SN insiders have picked it up already I heard, I doubt it will ever come to fruition

Haha, you really make my day here. NCB: in one week from aviation enthousiast to self-appointed senior advisor, in charge of Development at Brussels Airlines... (M.R., off you go...).

Has it ever come up to your mind that the Africa-desk at Brussels Airlines is full of people, many of them with 25 years or plus experience on Africa? Has it ever come to your mind that they have discussed your “plans” long time ago? Example: JNB. The Africa-desk has experience on JNB with 707, DC-10, B747-300, MD-11 (City Bird), A340-300, 767-300 (Sobelair). So they do know the market, the possibilities, the yield and ... the limitations for JNB. Wouldn’t you agree so? And if tolipanebas, who's flying A333, tells you that he can't make it to JNB non-stop, why don't you accept that?

Same applies for your inventive A319 boost (…). Brussels Airlines has flown with their own A319 to Africa quite a few times already in the past years. Because you obviously know that a 319 (when available) is one of the alternatives when a A333 is AOG. The other possibility, as you also know, is a EuroAtlantic – like they did a few weeks ago, as you also know.

To tell you the truth I wasn't pleased to hear that the acquisition was partial but I preferred it to the idea of SN running out of cash after the winter... so basically there is a tumor (lack of cash), there's something to relieve the pain for a defined period (LH participation) but the tumor needs be treated to disappear.

I will send this one to the Humor Festival in Knokke-Heist. Because contrary to what you say, the financial means of Brussels Airlines are better then from any other Belgian airline (T.B., with all respect to you and the others). There is no cancer (haha) in their annual report. Have you checked their annual reports, yes or no?

It is not because they don’t spend it on aircraft, that they don’t have it. It is simply company policy: “steady growth, defensive investments”. Compare it with private banking: one can say to his banker “I've heard that investment in eucalyptus tree plantations look good” or “I prefer State Bonds”.

What do the real experts think of this ? As a Belgian, I am trying to find a compromise (aren't Belgian known for their compromises ?

Check the previous pages: plenty of remarks by experts! People with experience in planning a fleet, experience in flying aircraft to Africa, experience in selling the tickets, experience in arranging the luggage problem, experience in yield management, experience in flying to Africa as passenger. It’s all there – but you simply refuse to accept it.

NCB and Air Key West, let’s be serious, shall we? Forget about what Microsoft Flight Simulator and other virtual airlines tell you. In real life, new routes are not opened based upon wildiest dreams, but on calculated risks. And always keeping in mind some basic factors which you refuse to accept (like “flying a A319 in triangle isn't profitable” – and “it is not possible to fly BRU-JNB with A333). It’s quite obvious that neither one of you has ever been in Africa before – and certainly hasn’t spent time in airports there. So my first suggestion: come to the airport and witness the passenger check-in for Africa-flights. After that, go to a upper floor restaurant or cafeteria, and check the cargo that is loaded into a A333 to Africa. Then imagine you have to do this into a A319.

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And going back to the topic : it’s not because Google, find-aircraft.com, need-plane.com, whatever internet source tells you that there aren’t any A333’s available that Brussels Airlines can’t find one. Obviously, you’re not on the ILFC mailing list.

[teddybAIR]

Ncb,

Let me remind you of the definition of a high yield Market:

A high yield Market is either a destination where there is low supply
and high demand (connecting flights are high supply even though they
are not as attractive for high paying passengers),or a Market where
there is a high % of business pax, or a Market where ties between the
city-pairs is high, or finally a market that has low weight, low
volume time sensitive cargo with little competing supply of cargo space towards that destination..
.

IMHO there is no such thing as a high yield market. There are however high yield routes (city pairs) and there are certain airports or cities which combine more than 1 route which sport high yields. And simply stated: a high yield route is a route that results in a high contribution to the company's margins. Now, let's keep in mind the drivers of margin and you know which elements (in combination or individualy) constitute a high yield route: volume (+), willingness to pay (+), demand for value added services (+), costs (-), etc.