Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

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andorra-airport
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Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by andorra-airport »

In September there were 21,002 movements recorded at Brussels Airport, the lowest since 1994, and a decrease of 9.4 percent compared with last year. The decrease of 9 percent is in line with the decline in recent months. According to Belgocontrol we have to wait until November to know if recovery is coming, because then the companies will come with there winter schedules.

Read the story (in Dutch) here: http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... 1994.dhtml

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BrightCedars
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by BrightCedars »

Movements are one part of the equation, passenger volumes are another. Is it as bad as back to 1994 in terms of passenger volumes? DHL's departure, Jet Airways' reduced offer, SN's own rationalization exacerbated with its acquisition by Lufthansa and its entry into Star Alliance have to weight on movements.

Especially that in 2009 you don't use as many smaller modules (50 seaters) as back in 1994. What is the evolution of the average aircraft capacity over the period? Ah, if only journalists where thorough investigators and not just copy/paste artists.

LX-LGX
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by LX-LGX »

BrightCedars wrote:Movements are one part of the equation, passenger volumes are another. Is it as bad as back to 1994 in terms of passenger volumes? DHL's departure, Jet Airways' reduced offer, SN's own rationalization exacerbated with its acquisition by Lufthansa and its entry into Star Alliance have to weight on movements.

Especially that in 2009 you don't use as many smaller modules (50 seaters) as back in 1994. What is the evolution of the average aircraft capacity over the period? Ah, if only journalists where thorough investigators and not just copy/paste artists.
This topic is about movements and Belgocontrol. Not about passenger volumes at the airport(s).

So don't shoot the messenger: information from both luchtzak-member andorra-airport and the journalist from Het Laatste Nieuws is correct and relevant: movements are indeed back to the 1994-figures.

http://www.belgocontrol.be/belgoweb/pub ... g09-15.pdf

and

http://www.belgocontrol.be/belgoweb/pub ... s09-15.pdf

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BrightCedars
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by BrightCedars »

LX-LGX wrote:So don't shoot the messenger
I'm not shooting any messenger and certainly not a fellow forum member. The fact is that we become used to journalists relaying information rather than enriching information, checking its source, veracity, and adding perspective to it.

Let say that 20 planes where flying 4 round trips a day with a capacity of 100 pax, that would mean there are in theory 20 (planes) * 4 (trips) * 2 (take-off + landing) * 30 (days) = 4,800 movements in a standard month and 480,000 passengers carried. Now if we have 15 planes flying the same 4 round trips a day with a capacity of 200 pax, you would have 15 (planes) * 4 (trips) * 2 (take-off + landing) * 30 (days) = 3,600 movements. A catastrophic drop of 25% compared to the initial proposal. But in fact this second proposal would carry 720,000 passengers in a month, a 50% increase in volume; which is mostly good news.

Such information is extremely relevent to put the information in perspective. It would be like saying that traffic on the road has dropped 10% over a period of time but failing to mention that car-sharing now seeing the average people per car at 2.5 instead of 1.5 over that same period.

I don't expect from a journalist that he just builds an article out of a press release or statistic available to the general public.

Acid-drop
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Acid-drop »

Indeed, it's a "play with numbers" news to maintain the "crisis" fear.

Some others airports in Belgium have an important growth despite a movements drop.

regi
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by regi »

It is just 1 figure, but it is a part of the statistics, which point downwards.

We may not shoot the messenger by referring to load factors, bigger airplanes etcetera. The danger is that if we go in that direction, we can also ask than questions like " what is the relevance of traffic as long as the profit is OK ?"

We have to accept this figure as it is, and we may couple this ( an assumption, I agree ) with the lower workload for SNBA personnel, resulting in temporarely unemployment.

We are in the midlle of an economic crisis of which nobody knows where it is heading to, and this figure is just 1 point of the entire picture.

To dissolve that discussion about load factor, I would like to say: if the economy would be better, we would have much more business flights. And that would bring the comparison passengers divided by movements a lot more downwards.

So it is going down, and it is an acceptable figure in the discussion about the aviation industry.
Sad to admit it is bad news. And I am afraid that "we ain't seen nothing yet", to use the words of RR.

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Atlantis
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Atlantis »

BrightCedars wrote: DHL's departure,
DHL departure has nothing to do with the current movement figures because DHL moved away in April last year. September last year was low and could compared with September 2007 but not today. The figures are much lower now.

LX-LGX
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by LX-LGX »

Company results 2008 from Belgacontrol are bad. Negative operational result, negative final result.

One week ago, a leading financial magazine wrote: "Pleasant salary increase for staff during 2008, although there were alarming signals from the aviation trade... Total staff charges over 2008 increased by 9 % ... Staff charges are now 57% of all company costs... Staff was very well served in 2008, with 1: a new CAO (collective labour agreement), 2: salary increase through scale changes (barema), 3: index salary increases, 4: bonusses for testing the new Canac2.

For 2009, income from flight movements are even less. Poor airlines (and thus passengers), who will now face an increase by Belgacontrol for movement charges.

But then : it's only safety that matters, isn't it ?

BelgoPilot
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by BelgoPilot »

" But then : it's only safety that matters, isn't it ? "

Again and again and again ... frustration and jealousy ...

I have just one thing to say to anyone complaining about everything:

IF YOU WANT IT ... DO IT ! (this not a personal attack sentence)

Some people should take a little "aeronautical break" otherwise they won't sleep anymore and/or get depressed.

Reading some posts here, and not only in this topic, show that some people actually doesn't accept that some guys are well paid to avoid accidents, take huge responsabilities, ... Money doesn't solve everything and won't avoid crashes (unfortunatly), but the fact that you guys always come back with money money money is the proof that you are frustrated.

In the figures here above, it is only one sight, the negative one (sorry).

You can perhaps see them like this: they perhaps hired some staff (perhaps not enough, do not continue the other topic here) and raised the salaries ==> then the increase in staff costs is automatically more significant than if it was just a salary increase ... A study should be done, can be done, but once again, don't trust the media and be sure to have all the information before making interpretations and judgments.

I don't work for belgocontrol

I leave it here ... I am bored reading always the same stories ...

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Atlantis
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Atlantis »

Something else: as from next weekend, the quiet weekend nights will be a fact on Brussels Airport.

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Established02
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Established02 »

> as from next weekend, the quite weekend nights will be a fact on Brussels Airport.

I'm new to this concept of "quite nights". Please explain a bit.


On another note, can you confirm that the 747-200 operations at BRU will indeed be stopped in a near future?

If so, what will happen to the Kalitta and Africa West operations?

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Atlantis
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Atlantis »

Established02 wrote:> as from next weekend, the quite weekend nights will be a fact on Brussels Airport.

I'm new to this concept of "quite nights". Please explain a bit.

I will explain it to you later on this day.
Established02 wrote:>

On another note, can you confirm that the 747-200 operations at BRU will indeed be stopped in a near future?

If so, what will happen to the Kalitta and Africa West operations?
that's correct but every airline gets 5 year to change their operations -> new fuel efficient and quite airplanes.

Filou
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Filou »

All,
The silent nights are already occuring since April last, this won't change at all in the next week-end. So operators won't fear changes due to this; The new regulation as of this week-end does not mention anything new about the night operations compared to the past.
And the B747-200 restrictions are only hitting potential new freighter operators, although that "new" cargo airlines still flying only -100 or -200 are probably not what BRU is in search of.
Actual airlines such as Saudia, AfricaWest, Demavia and others are absolutely not hit by the new regulation, as they were already in as customers prior to October 24th and have the necessary time to change to newer aircraft, which will be done on a natural way when the B747-8 F will be launched, putting more -400's on the amrket, reducing the -200 actually flying...
Please don't take the upcoming plan as negative, it is only structuring the future which is positive !

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Atlantis
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Atlantis »

Established02 wrote:> as from next weekend, the quite weekend nights will be a fact on Brussels Airport.

I'm new to this concept of "quite nights". Please explain a bit.

At the end of last year, the federal government decided that Brussels Airport "need" some silent nights during the weekend. They decided that 25 October 2009 would be the first date to start with.
This is only for departures on Friday between 01h and 06h, on Saturday and Sunday between 0h and 06h.

In practise: the QC (quota count) between 23h and 06h will be reduced from 12 to 8 QC. This means that the MD-11 plane of Saudi and Eva cannot depart also the A300 is involved in this. At this actual moment one flight per night is involved.
During the morning: 06h and 07h the QC will be reduced from 24 to 12. This means that the B747-400 can not longer operate.

There are now also restrictions during the day and evening. In the evening 21h - 23h the QC will be reduced to 24. This means that Kalitta, Saudi and Africa West are hit.

But like I said already, every airline will get 5 year to upgrade their fleet: B747-8F, A330F, B777F, etc

Filou wrote:All,
The silent nights are already occuring since April last, this won't change at all in the next week-end. So operators won't fear changes due to this;
Sorry to say this Filou but your info is not correct. The only thing the federal government decided to do at the beginning of this year was to reduce the number of night flights and this with 5000.
The silent night since April was not excisting because the government decided this in AUGUST.
And second: also the current cargo players are hit, not only the new ones. Besides what would be the logical if you let fly the current cargo carriers with old planes and new cargo players with new material?

Acid-drop
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Acid-drop »

Good explanation thanks, it's more clear with the QC numbers.
You say they have 5 years to adapt ? What can they do until then ? What will happen in 5 years ? even stronger noice restrictions ?

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Atlantis
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Atlantis »

Acid-drop wrote:Good explanation thanks, it's more clear with the QC numbers.
You say they have 5 years to adapt ? What can they do until then ? What will happen in 5 years ? even stronger noice restrictions ?
They will give the cargo airlines and other airlines the opportunity to renew their fleet and reshuffle their timetable. This will take some time.

Acid-drop
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Re: Belgocontrol: Bru traffic in Sep. 2009 lowest since 1994

Post by Acid-drop »

I guess it will take some times ...
but I mean ... do those rules already apply now or is it ok to continue 5 years ?

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