Cargo B financial woes ?

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Super Baloo
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Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by Super Baloo » 30 Jun 2009, 15:24

Good afternoon everybody,

Another aviation forum website (pprune) claims that Cargo B is on the edge of bankruptcy. They say that both airplanes are in Amsterdam and that all crews currently outside Belgium are being flown commercial back to Belgium. All flights have been cancelled till further notice they say. Some posts indicates a crew meeting tomorrow and a possible bankrupt announcement tomorrow.

Is there any more news about this ? What credit can we give to this news ?
How many people are currently working for Cargo B ? Who are the main investors in Cargo B (I know about the flemish government and Nippon Cargo Airlines) ?

Acid-drop
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Acid-drop » 30 Jun 2009, 15:57

AI guess it's this link ? http://www.pprune.org/freight-dogs/3795 ... -bust.html
We knew that Cargo B was in a difficult position, but that far ...
They had to move to LGG in a few days ...

Super Baloo
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Super Baloo » 30 Jun 2009, 16:22

Yes, it is the link. I should have copied it in the first place.

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zteven
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Re: Cargo B

Post by zteven » 30 Jun 2009, 16:25

Well i knew the planes were scheduled to go to
AMS for maintenance but not together.

Strange...

Greetz!



Steven

Nevihta
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Nevihta » 30 Jun 2009, 16:30

There's one in LGG, I don't know the reg.

Acid-drop
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Acid-drop » 30 Jun 2009, 16:33

Nevihta wrote:There's one in LGG, I don't know the reg.
That's OO-CBB, it's the -200 that is not flying anymore. It's parked there for months.
You can see it in the background of this pic, taken today : http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1041/n ... border.jpg

Nevihta
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Nevihta » 30 Jun 2009, 16:54

Acid-drop wrote:
Nevihta wrote:There's one in LGG, I don't know the reg.
That's OO-CBB, it's the -200 that is not flying anymore. It's parked there for months.
You can see it in the background of this pic, taken today : http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1041/n ... border.jpg
correct, I thought I haven't seen it moving for a while.

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zteven
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Re: Cargo B

Post by zteven » 01 Jul 2009, 00:18

"Due to extended maintenance works on OOCBB in AMS,
-wing to body fairing repair- flight BB1301-2/1-2JUL will
be cancelled."

Greetz!



Steven
Last edited by zteven on 02 Jul 2009, 21:41, edited 1 time in total.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Boeing767copilot » 01 Jul 2009, 08:17

Today there will be a board meeting in Brussels...

Bralo20
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Bralo20 » 01 Jul 2009, 09:10

zteven wrote:Don't think there's anything to worry about.

"Due to extended maintenance works on OOCBB in AMS,
-wing to body fairing repair- flight BB1301-2/1-2JUL will
be cancelled."

Greetz!



Steven
OO-CBB is standing still in LGG
OO-CBC & OO-CBD, both brand new B744F's are standing in AMS. ;)

willem
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Re: Cargo B

Post by willem » 01 Jul 2009, 11:06

Article on "De Tijd" says that they are out of money... With a BIG chance they will have to stop their activities.

Looks like the end of it, unless Nippon Cargo pays more money...

Bralo20
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Re: Cargo B

Post by Bralo20 » 01 Jul 2009, 11:20

Some news in the financial newspaper "De Tijd": http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 27-431.art (only dutch)

Quick Translation:

Mayday for Cargo B Airlines:

Belgian airfreight carrier Cargo B Airlines is strugling to stay alive but the chance is great that all activities will be suspended unless a new investor will be found. This noon, at 13h00, there will be a board meeting to discuss the future (or faillure) of Cargo B. The capital of 27 million EUR is completely used.

All personell, based in Africa and South America were recalled to Belgium for a meeting with the pilots yesterday. A crucial boardmeeting, which would be held this morning is suspended to this noon.

Is Cargo B forced to stop activities asked the newspaper to the president Rob Kuijpers, the man who also founded the airline. I just don't know was the reaction of the president... Cargo B is flying with 2 brand new Boeing 747-400F freighters and is employing more then 50 people, most of then pilots.

Both airplanes are in Amsterdam for maintenance says Dirk Vrebos, Director Operations. The scheduled flights for today are cancelled but yesterday Vrebos told us that this weekend flights would continue. Invoices for flighthandler Aviapartner are paid untill next monday. However, the last invoice for fuel was paid by the NYK group, one of Cargo B shareholders.

Cargo B started operations in the end of 2007 with a very decent businessplan but the carier had to deal with some problems like the delayed deliveries of the new airplanes, the delay of the AOC and the sudden impact of the crisis in the sector. Cargo B was funded through PMV (a group of 50 investors from Petercam Services), QAT II Investments and QAT Arkiv with a fund of 20 million EUR. Last year a new shareholder, the NYK holding, which also operates in the port of Zeebrugge and also owner of Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA), funded another 7 million EUR into Cargo B Airlines.


Source: De Tijd

joyraider
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by joyraider » 01 Jul 2009, 11:29

Wow, so it is true.. That's really sad :( I had the impression they were doing very good, and was very surprised by the purchase of the brand new 744F's (that's something you don't see every day in Belgium!).

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Accry
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by Accry » 01 Jul 2009, 11:35

wait a bit guys, it's not done yet!

there are some alternatives on the tables...

accry

willem
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by willem » 01 Jul 2009, 11:39

joyraider wrote:Wow, so it is true.. That's really sad :( I had the impression they were doing very good, and was very surprised by the purchase of the brand new 744F's (that's something you don't see every day in Belgium!).

They didn't purchase them, but leased them from NCA.

Anyway spoke some time ago with one of their pilots, and as most cargo companies, they are struggling. Loads are not so great. As with most cargo companies these days... But the big ones often have some more spare cash to survive something like this crisis. Which is I'm afraid not the case for Cargo B.

Let's hope they make it!

Acid-drop
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by Acid-drop » 01 Jul 2009, 11:43

very bad time for cargo these days ...
Cargo B was already weak before the crisis, now it's worse. Let's hope they can make it !!

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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by teddybAIR » 01 Jul 2009, 12:00

I am afraid that "spare cash" is only a fairy tale. Healthy companies in fairly commoditized industries are efficient and have a lower cost structure saving them money on a recurring basis. Having an account with spare cash is a practise applied by a lot of households, but onfortunately not by companies...sorry to burst the bubble!

willem
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by willem » 01 Jul 2009, 12:45

teddybAIR wrote:I am afraid that "spare cash" is only a fairy tale. Healthy companies in fairly commoditized industries are efficient and have a lower cost structure saving them money on a recurring basis. Having an account with spare cash is a practise applied by a lot of households, but onfortunately not by companies...sorry to burst the bubble!
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but decent, wel run companies do have spare cash. That still is the best way of doing business.(Can be hidden as buildings they own, or investments in arts or whatever). You never know when you can use it for taking over a smaller business or stuff like that.

One of the many reasons we are in this crisis is that companies try to take over other ones with money they didn't have etc etc...

Anyway that's a long discussion, but this doesn't apply on a young company like Cargo B.

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TCAS
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by TCAS » 01 Jul 2009, 12:47

Mayday voor Cargo B Airlines

De Belgische luchtvrachtmaatschappij Cargo B Airlines vecht om te overleven maar de kans is groot dat de activiteiten gestopt worden. Tenzij op de valreep een nieuwe investeerder opduikt. Vanmiddag om 13u volgt een cruciale raad van bestuur. Het kapitaal van 27 miljoen is opgesoupeerd.
Full article and source (De Tijd)

teddybAIR
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Re: Cargo B financial woes ?

Post by teddybAIR » 01 Jul 2009, 13:47

Willem [Others: this is an off-topic contribution, so consider skipping...]

Investments in real estate are not really what you call cash. They are investments with an impact on your net cash flow as you avoid having to lease/rent your facilities. That is what I meant with companies that attempt to streamline their operations and supporting services. I am afraid how investing in arts - as you state - will significantly contribute to reducing business risks...unless you are willing to invest that much that it will compromise the return on assets unevenly!

You know as well as I do that even having 1M$ cash (and please look up the definition of cash) will only make a difference of a couple of days in the aviation industry. Thus, for a company barely able to have a positive P&L statement, attempting to survive the crisis on historically built up cash resurves is nothing but a fairy tail.

More important however is making sure that deals with customers are less volatile and less susceptible to sudden change in times of crisis. This can only be achieved if there is also a clear win for your counterparty. Nevertheless, companies like Cargo B should realise that their capacity is not agile and can not easily be downsized to dimension it in function of reducing market demand. Given the shear height of the non avoidable cost that is so typical for the airline industry: predictability is far more important for a company's survivability than to have a few million on the side. The same cash could be invested in streamlining operations having in its turn a major impact on your cost structure.

I think the airline industry has already proven that the ones that survive/outperform in the long run can be categorized in either of two groups or in both:

- best in class examples in terms of cost management (and by that i do not necessarily mean LCC's)
- companies that have been able to make demand for their product less volatile than the industry average (Ryanair is a typical example)

I still need to see the first case that can deploy on a vast cash reserve. Yet, what is very important is rock solid investor and creditor relations that are able to overcome the short term vieuw often applied at the very lowest point in each industry.

I challenge you to step to a bank with your business plan and tell them you'll use the funds as back-up cash for "just in case"...they'll have a good laugh! Good companies can be recognised by the fact that they are agile in economic downturns...thanks to this agility they have no exeptional cash need as they are able to adapt...companies that are less well run (read, where the customer questions the added value over the average value offered by your competitors) are companies that have need for funding in economic downturn as they know they will be the ones that will be hit hardest. It is not the fattest lion that will survive the longest...it is the one that is able to adapt to a changing environment...the same goes for almost any industry"

In short:
An increased need for cash in a cheap excuse for bad management in economic downturns

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