New LCT at Brussels Airport opens 25 October 2009

[Conti764]

No new routes from Brussels Airport!

easyJet adds 15 new routes for W09/10
easyJet last week announced 15 new routes across Europe for the 2009/10 Winter season.

The routes are:
Rome - Athens eff 15OCT09
Rome - Geneva eff 26OCT09
Liverpool - Fuerteventura eff 02NOV09
London Gatwick - Porto eff 02NOV09
Madrid - Amsterdam eff 02NOV09
Rome - Amsterdam eff 02NOV09
Rome - Lamezia Terme eff 02NOV09
Rome - Lisbon eff 02NOV09
Liverpool - Lanzarote eff 03NOV09
London Luton - Sharm el Sheikh eff 03NOV09
London Luton - Paphos eff 04NOV09
London Stansted - Paphos eff 04NOV09
London Stansted - Fuerteventura eff 04NOV09
Edinburgh - Lyon eff 17DEC09
London Gatwick - Hamburg eff 02FEB10

These are new Easyjet UK routes, while Easyjet at BRU is the Swiss division of Easyjet. They anounce routes differently, if I'm correct.

[AVION1]

LYS-BRU 4x week starting 17th Dec (increase to 6/weekly 03/2010)

[Established02]

LYS-BRU 4x week starting 17th Dec (increase to 6/weekly 03/2010)

= new route for easyJet.

Flights are bookable already, operating on Mon Wed Fri Sun.

EZS4367 LYS-BRU 19:10-20:30
EZS4368 BRU-LYS 20:55-22:15

[Conti764]

Luchthaven Charleroi bedreigt die van Brussel

Het plan voor de lowcost-terminal op Brussels Airport verkeert in ernstige moeilijkheden. De federale regering heeft net een negatief advies uitgebracht over het project, schrijven de kranten van de groep Sud Presse. Volgens La Libre Belgique heeft het Brussels Instituut voor Milieubeheer (BIM) beroep aangetekend tegen de plannen. Als het project niet doorgaat, zou de luchthaven van Charleroi, dankzij lowcost, tegen 2015 de eerste luchthaven in België kunnen worden.

Dreams, sweet dreams

This means in less then 6 years they have to win at least 14 million passengers or an increase with 566% to their current pax numbers. People overestimate the potential of low cost. Sure it's a growing market but for CRL to have the same number of pax as BRU these days. It's not the first time the Walloon press get's excited about castles in the sky

Expecting CRL to outgrow BRU, solely because the LC terminal would not go through is also assuming BRU would not grow trough it's traditional customers and that's rubbish. With their main operator SN joining the biggest alliance in aviation, JAF and TC staying in BRU I see BRU growing to more then 22 million passengers by then.

And CRL doesn't have the capacity (one runway, remember) to grow as big as BRU, which still has overcapacity and the space to expand, which CRL doesn't have.

[flightlover]

Dreams, sweet dreams

This means in less then 6 years they have to win at least 14 million passengers or an increase with 566% to their current pax numbers. People overestimate the potential of low cost. Sure it's a growing market but for CRL to have the same number of pax as BRU these days. It's not the first time the Walloon press get's excited about castles in the sky

Expecting CRL to outgrow BRU, solely because the LC terminal would not go through is also assuming BRU would not grow trough it's traditional customers and that's rubbish. With their main operator SN joining the biggest alliance in aviation, JAF and TC staying in BRU I see BRU growing to more then 22 million passengers by then.

And CRL doesn't have the capacity (one runway, remember) to grow as big as BRU, which still has overcapacity and the space to expand, which CRL doesn't have.

Not unless they find a way to kill BRU by then. And believe me: they will trie.

[Desert Rat]

I hope CRL can grab a piece of the cake from BRU, at the end of the day, the sun is shinning for everybody...don't you think??

http://www.lecho.be/actualite/entrepris ... 49-582.art

[Acid-drop]

I don't know if you have understood the numbers : CRL has a 40% growth, 50% more destinations than last year, this is totally crazy. People clearly underestimate the potential of low cost imho.
Now getting as big as BRU is another story. Getting more important with more pax and more destinations for european flight, it's totally possible, it's on the way and they will not need 10 more years for that, but there is no plan yet for competing on the long haul, and that's a huge difference. This is where BRU is the leader, and will continue to be I think. Business flights are also clearly focused on main airports in main cities, BRU will keep at least the 2/3 of this trafic I believe.

So yeah, CRL can be bigger, but the goal is not to compete against BRU but more to be a nice alternative in the belgian market.

[Conti764]

Not unless they find a way to kill BRU by then. And believe me: they will trie.

I imagine they will try, but I personally don't think they will succeed, no matter how hard the Brussels region will do its best to destroy the airport

I don't know if you have understood the numbers : CRL has a 40% growth, 50% more destinations than last year, this is totally crazy. People clearly underestimate the potential of low cost imho.
Now getting as big as BRU is another story. Getting more important with more pax and more destinations for european flight, it's totally possible, it's on the way and they will not need 10 more years for that, but there is no plan yet for competing on the long haul, and that's a huge difference. This is where BRU is the leader, and will continue to be I think. Business flights are also clearly focused on main airports in main cities, BRU will keep at least the 2/3 of this trafic I believe.

Oh, I understood the figures. You won't hear me say that CRL performance isn't impressive, but the tought to outgrow BRU is ridiculous, I even dare say insane. If CRL will still try so and forget to strengthen their core low cost market, in the end it will be them who go down. CRL will never become bigger then BRU, not in Europe, definately not internationally.

Neither will I say that BRU low cost project will outgrow CRL, but I personally don't think that's BAC's goal, while I see a lot of indications that all CRL airport wants it to become Belgiums number 1 airport. The only thing BAC wants is to have a piece of the cake which gets bigger and bigger and doesn't get hit as hard with economic recessions.

We have discussed this already many times, but I repeat myself: it is easier for an airport like BRU to take away market share in the segment which is owned (in Belgium) by CRL then the other way around. CRL probably has a nice and clean terminal, but still no boarding bridges and by far not the size of BRU's terminal. Everybody says that BRU is digging its own grave with the LC terminal, while there is some LC market in the airport. EZY will become BRU's FR, not the size nor the importance CRL has for the Irish, but BRU will have some importance for EZY (as focus city) and vice versa, even more so since EZY's bussenis model is to get LC pax to primary airports i.s.o. secondary airports like FR. CRL will still be Belgiums number one low cost airport, but that doesn't mean BRU can't get a tasty part of the pie.

Now the other way around...

CRL has nearly nothing to offer to full service carriers. Although they have some spare capacity, they still have only one runway which will get updated soon. They have a small 'build around LC markets' terminal not the size nor the facilities BRU's terminals have. You can say whatever you want, but there simply is not the space, nor the demand for CRL to outgrow BRU in all segments.

Sure, BRU is getting hit pretty hard with the economic downturn, mostly since two of their biggest users of the airport either haven't been able to develop into a full scale carrier (SN) or came from a growing market which gets slammed by the economic downturn (9W) and still, even in these economical turbulent times, they provide the airport with millions of passengers, and the two combined even give BRU more pax then all pax of CRL. We are in the middle of the recession and things will only get brighter. SN now has found a partner who will take care of them (LH), will soon join the biggest alliance in aviation which in turn will feed pax to BRU. 9W seems no longer to overestimate their potential and obviously has found out trees don't reach to the sky and they too have to develop step by step. They scaled down operations and are now working hard to get their finances straight. They too will join an alliance and I sincerely hope it will be Star Alliance. It would turn BRU to a true hub for the alliance in stead of a mini hub.

Nine years ago BRU had 20 million pax and their main operator wass responsible for a large part of that figure, even though it wass small and member of a crappy alliance (Qualiflyer). In the years after the airport got slammed hard by all factors which led to harsh times in aviation, not the least by SN's demise. Last year they had around 18 million pax, this year less but still around 17 million pax with a national carrier which is only a small part of what it used to be. But this carrier can now fully develop into the entity it once was and maybe even bigger, resulting in even more passengers. They will become a member of a strong alliance which will feed pax trough BRU again. SN can now take full advantage of all benefits of the A-pier which was build for SN's hub operations. I am sure that with all its expertise and experience, LH will take the right decisions for the airline so the future for SN and BRU looks much brighter then ever before in the last 20 years.

Now, I sincerely hope CRL management will get back to sense and stay focussed on the segment they are the undisputed leaders in Belgium: low cost. Although all signs I see indicate they are going down the wrong road: they sacked the man who was responsible for the impressive growth of the airport and who knew they had to focus on their own strengths in stead of tackling BRU, and they are dreaming about being the biggest again or at least give the media that impression (according to La Libre Belgique).
Once again, assuming CRL will outgrow BRU because the LC terminal wouldn't go through, is assuming BRU wouldn't grow on the other side as well and that's ridiculous. Even more so since CRL will never have a product to offer the clients the way BRU has. BRU won't stand still.

If management at CRL doesn't follow Buelens legacy, one day they will wake up from the dream they are living now and end up in a nightmare and it will be CRL which will loose the fight against BRU.

[Acid-drop]

Take it to a different level.
Will low cost one day transport more people than regular carriers.
I believe yes. So CRL will become bigger than BRU for european destinations, but only for european destinations. This ain't a war, the public is different.

[Conti764]

Take it to a different level.
Will low cost one day transport more people than regular carriers.

No. Since regular carriers will still need the Euro feed into their international flights. They will addopt in some way to compete against these low cost carriers, but they will stay ahead of low cost.

I guess the low cost industry will consolidate around a few mega carriers: Southwest in the US, Ryanair and Easyjet in Europe, etc. etc. but they will never outgrow regular companies because they need the feed into their long haul system. Many airlines are offering the legs between euro destinations and their hubs merely for free, making the big bucks on their long haul flights.

[Megaman]

for the time being, I think BRU's future is guarenteed by Brussels airlines joining the Star Alliance. There may be the developement of a small regional and african hub and spoke network and to me it makes perfect sense to develope transatlantic flights, brussels being much more to the west than the other hubs of the alliance. (I hate flying to the US through munich out of BRU. It's a waste of time although I love the Lufthansa service).

However for all other companies who could use Belgium as a feeder market for their Long Haul ops or for point to point services, they could offer better deals to their customers by flying them out of Charleroi. It's not that fictuous. A lot of people are sensitive to price. (e.g. Ryanair, Colruyt, Aldi, Lidl, the various bus networks travelling people accross europe, ...). You could imagine long haul operations from charleroi as well for the same reason. Ryanair has in its plans to go in that direction (this was announced last year and I don't know where the project is at), and I doubt they will consider going to BRU rather than Charleroi. If you've got a 400 EUR (charleroi) fee vs. a 500 EUR (BRU) fee for the same destination (not necessarily the same airport), people will fly intercontinental out of Charleroi. I think it's just a matter of time.

As for runway plans, if a second runway is needed, they can easily build a second one parallel to the first (like at Gatwick) although london stansted is moving quite a heafty bunch of people with only one runway...

[summersso]

If you've got a 400 EUR (charleroi) fee vs. a 500 EUR (BRU) fee for the same destination (not necessarily the same airport), people will fly intercontinental out of Charleroi. I think it's just a matter of time.

+25 euros baggage surcharge both ways, +a cramped rude bus service return to CRL for €40, +no food or drinks. No thank you - I'll choose the more expensive option!

I think this conversation just boils down to is the question "will LCC's become larger than traditional full-service airlines (FSAs)"? And I think not.

Even if FSAs dominance was threatened by CRL and LCCs growth, it would be naive to think BRU and FSAs wouldn't react - we live in a competitive world - that's the crux of capitalism (which might finally be emerging in Belgium!). Ultimately BRU could strip out all the seats in all terminals, close the shops, seek to provide worse service - effectively becoming a low-cost airport. FSAs would cut costs and seek to become leaner operations.

But ultimately CRL will NEVER be larger than BRU - can anyone name a regional low-cost airport three times further away from the destination city that is larger than the main airport? I doubt it!

[Megaman]

+25 euros baggage surcharge both ways, +a cramped rude bus service return to CRL for €40, +no food or drinks. No thank you - I'll choose the more expensive option!

You might, but ask all those flying ryanair today and who don't have a problem with it (besides, brussels airlines is not offering food or drinks either and at worst Charleroi is only 30 minutes further by car)... I personally prefer a better comfort as well but undoubtedly a lot of people are going and will continue to turn to the ryanair model. Ryanair is one of the only companies still making money so I think shareholders will soon request for elements of the LC industry to be introduced in the FSA's

[Conti764]

However for all other companies who could use Belgium as a feeder market for their Long Haul ops or for point to point services, they could offer better deals to their customers by flying them out of Charleroi. It's not that fictuous. A lot of people are sensitive to price. (e.g. Ryanair, Colruyt, Aldi, Lidl, the various bus networks travelling people accross europe, ...). You could imagine long haul operations from charleroi as well for the same reason. Ryanair has in its plans to go in that direction (this was announced last year and I don't know where the project is at), and I doubt they will consider going to BRU rather than Charleroi. If you've got a 400 EUR (charleroi) fee vs. a 500 EUR (BRU) fee for the same destination (not necessarily the same airport), people will fly intercontinental out of Charleroi. I think it's just a matter of time.

For low cost long haul (if ever): yes. But that's not about to happen yet (who would like to fly +8 hours on Ryanair???) and even more so, accept for Ryanair, what airline would fly to Belgium, let alone CRL?
Belgium is not a big market and only a handful of companies can fly intercontinental to the country. Alliance members, yes, probably, but outside Star Alliance? Sure, we have some American carriers (DL, AA) and some (for the time being) stand alone carriers (9W, EY,...) but besides them? Do you see JAL, KE, MH, ... to name a few flying to Belgium? I don't honoustly. Only some Star Alliance carriers could fly here (SQ, TG, NH,...) and then we've had it. I don't even see EK starting routes to Belgium due to lack of demand.

And besides that, those airlines are full service airlines and some of them are top notch quality carriers, they won't fly to (with all due respect) secondary airport CRL, but prefer the closer to the city primary airport BRU.

If we talk about other European companies, imagine them all flying to CRL, how crowded would the much smaller airport become? They too want to be as close to the city the airport serves (Brussels) as possible and wish to use the primary airport.

[Atlantis]

This is typical Belgium. You can't create a nice business because the Walloon parties are against and the Flemisch are pro and vise versa. Always the same story and this while a foreign company create a lot of jobs on and around the airport and spend millions of euros at the airport.

The same story about Diabolo. Some foreign companies invest millions in this project. Those are not short time projects but LONG time projects.

You don't believe those newspapers. Use your brains. CRL can't be the biggest airport in Belgium by 2015: not in time, not in infrastructure, not in airlines and they have not the money to do so, etc.
There is competition between the Belgian airports but the way they "fight" is NOT the same. You lose some and you win some. Blue Air moved from CRL to BRU, Jetairfly is operating extra flights out of CRL but didn't moved to CRL. ET moved from BRU to LGG. TNT is operating a 5 weekly cargo flight out of BRU but didn't moved to BRU.
Jetair recently said that BRU will be and will stay the airport for their long haul flights

No single law or rule is the same in Belgium because you have, beside the federal, three other governments with there own rules. This is not good. Not for BRU, CRL, LGG, ANR and OST.

We have 5 nice airports in this very small country and every airport has its own speciality:

BRU: national airport: long and short haul, cargo and general aviation
CRL: LC
LGG: cargo
OST: cargo
ANR: business

Why this stupid battle?? Stay in your own segment but don't announce that you will be THE airport because it will not work, rather the opposite.

[Acid-drop]

This is typical Belgium. You can't create a nice business because the Walloon parties are against and the Flemisch are pro and vise versa.

While it's most often true, this time the 2 airports are competing on different market, different companies, different everything ...