Security chaos at Brussels last night

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b-west

Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by b-west » 15 May 2009, 00:25

Well, apart from all the weather problems, there was another reason why passengers wanting to leave Brussels had to be very patient today: the security check. The queue in the B-terminal stretched at a certain moment from the security checkpoint, around the chocolates shop up to the border control boxes of the federal police. Waiting time was around 1 hour and the police was called on the scene after passengers started getting into heated arguments.

At first, only 2 control lines were opened, then the people of the airport security (so not securitas), called in some of their staff to open an additional line.

This ofcourse caused for a lot of disgruntled passengers. Is this the result of all the cost cutting BAC has been doing recently? With the busy summer season ahead, it looks like these queues will become a common sight.

Darjeeling
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by Darjeeling » 15 May 2009, 08:33

b-west wrote:
At first, only 2 control lines were opened, then the people of the airport security (so not securitas), called in some of their staff to open an additional line.

This ofcourse caused for a lot of disgruntled passengers. Is this the result of all the cost cutting BAC has been doing recently? With the busy summer season ahead, it looks like these queues will become a common sight.
No, the result of the perpetual "bord*l" we live with at Brussels Airport. And there is ALWAYS a good excuse. When it's not rain, heat, fog, snow or frost we usually get the "we zijn te weinig..." famous sentence.
People that were targeted by the Security report regarding Bru Apt were already frustrated people, no they've become even more frustrated. You pay peanuts, you get...
The problem is that what airlines pay to BRU apt is not peanuts.
No offence here. Just an every day's observation from passengers and customers of Brussels airport.

TCAS_climb
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by TCAS_climb » 15 May 2009, 12:28

Security staff stuck in the monsoon ? What an exotic pretext !
:)

danieln
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by danieln » 15 May 2009, 12:50

I really don't see the problem. If the security checks need to be more strict, then they should hire more staff. Is that so difficult?

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tolipanebas
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by tolipanebas » 15 May 2009, 15:18

danieln wrote:I really don't see the problem.
With a recent negative safety audit still fresh in the mind of all people and the Belgian aviation authorities, BRU is now trying to follow the safety rules to the letter, meaning for instance that every pax that beeps when going through the X-ray machines not only needs to be checked a second time, but also automatically any hand luggage he or she holds! Obviously, as everybody who regularly flies will tell you, about half the pax beep when passing the metal detector gates (watch, hairclip, belt, shoes...) and so about half the pax need to have their hand luggage hand searched, thus causing HUGE delays at peak times!

Several airlines have already complained to BAC because their pax can no longer make it to the gate on time and even taking the fast lanes can take up to half an hour in rush hours! :lol:
danieln wrote:If the security checks need to be more strict, then they should hire more staff. Is that so difficult?
Not difficult at all, but for the small fact that the owner of BRU wants to milk the airport till the last drop, meaning BRU has RIDICULOUSLY HIGH TAXES (one of the top 5 costly airports in EU), combined with one of the LOWEST EXPLOITATION COSTS (hence the long waiting times).

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by LX-LGX » 15 May 2009, 15:35

People that were targeted by the Security report regarding Bru Apt were already frustrated people, no they've become even more frustrated. You pay peanuts, you get...
Here we go again : seems aviation is paying everybody in peanuts: cleaners (with all respect for their job), handlers, security staff, pilots. Why do all those peanuts eating people don't look for another job, well paid? My guess: because after all, aviation is paying quite well (ask a kassierster/cassière from Carrefour, Colruyt or Delhaize how much she earns. And she's also has to be friendly all time).

I really don't see the problem. If the security checks need to be more strict, then they should hire more staff. Is that so difficult?
Let me clear one big misunderstanding: the security gaps that have been revealed at BRU do not include what is generally called "security" = those checking the passengers, their handbags and their luggage at the gates (= between the tax free shops and the gates).

The investigation revealed that too many people get access to non-public facilities without a decent safety inspection. People working on/in/near/at aircraft should be inspected just like passengers are, and this should be done every time, the investigation showed. So yes, a flight supervisor will have to be checked like passengers are, every time he/she runs from the check-in or the back-office to the gate. Same applies for subcontractors working on airport facilities near the tarmac, airline staff from downtown offices, all suppliers, ...

So, what happened yesterday evening? Some people who have only heard "security is too soft" don't check that story: they just thaught it's about them. And like it's very common in Belgium, they pick out the weakest target to anger out their frustration: the passengers.

- - -

The investigation also revealed another security gap at BRU - also not about the scanning and/or body check from passengers and their luggage. But that safety gap is not to be discussed at a public forum.

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tolipanebas
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by tolipanebas » 15 May 2009, 15:52

LX-LGX wrote: People working on/in/near/at aircraft should be inspected just like passengers are, and this should be done every time, the investigation showed. So yes, a flight supervisor will have to be checked like passengers are, every time he/she runs from the check-in or the back-office to the gate. Same applies for subcontractors working on airport facilities near the tarmac, airline staff from downtown offices, all suppliers, ...
The point is that the RULES are ridiculous for some categories of staff working on the airport!

For instance:

Security now also checks the luggage of the pilots to see if their is nothing 'illegal' in there! :shock: HELLOW, pilots are locked up in the cockpit of a flying plane, sitting at the controls, with a huge fire-axe (legally required safety tool belonging to the plane BTW) right next to them...
They really don't need a small knive of a scissor to do anything wrong should they want to, so don't waste time on us! :lol:

Same with technicians: whenever they are called in from the hanger to fix a plane which broke down, they need to be searched at the security gates, yet it is hard to fix a plane if you can't have any tools with you, is it? So their toolboxes are exempted from the searches, but the technicians themselves aren't! Meaning that any tool which is found on them is taken off, but anything in the box may pass! How stupid is that? You want my screwdriver or my knive which happens to be on me? Sure, go ahead... I have 50 more in the box which I will take with me through security after you're finished searching me! :lol:

People working at the security gates where these categories of staff pass by fully understand this too and so they applied the rules pretty relaxed ;-) , but as so often those conducting the audit didn't think the rules to be ridiculous at all and labelled this as a serious security breach, whereas it was just common sense really, but hey, this is aviation security: common sense has no place here, so it seems. :)

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SN_fan
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by SN_fan » 15 May 2009, 16:12

checking pilots => good, it doesn't matter that there is a huge axe near them, it's know to be there, and if they want to crash there own plane, ok there is nothing you can do about it, but they can smuggle weapons in the secure area pass it to others and they can use it on other planes.

About the technicians, about the tools they are required to use: they should have tools in the secure area and every day an inventory should be made to see if anything is missing.

And those people who have access on the tarmac with their car should have a checked car on the tarmac and when they want to ride on the tarmac they get out their own car pass security and get into the other car.

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tolipanebas
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by tolipanebas » 15 May 2009, 16:56

SN_fan wrote:checking pilots => good, it doesn't matter that there is a huge axe near them, it's know to be there, and if they want to crash there own plane, ok there is nothing you can do about it, but they can smuggle weapons in the secure area pass it to others and they can use it on other planes.
And pilots can't give this axe away to a passenger-terrorist if they have any bad intentions, or what??? :roll:
I don't need to smuggle in any weapon which I could then pass on like you suggest; I have a set of weapons waiting for me on board which I could pass on with much more ease... :idea:
SN_fan wrote:About the technicians, about the tools they are required to use: they should have tools in the secure area and every day an inventory should be made to see if anything is missing.
And how do you match the idea of all those tools being readily available inside the secure area with the idea that anybody who has legal access to them could pass them on to a terrorist on the airport like you've launched yourself in the paragraph above when you were talking pilots?

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Atlantis
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by Atlantis » 15 May 2009, 17:42

tolipanebas wrote: The point is that the RULES are ridiculous for some categories of staff working on the airport!
I can't believe this that you are saying that!! Why all the fuss that your luggage will be checked? That's already for years. We are after 11/9 my friend. Safety above all and you should now that.

Rules are for everybody. When I was on the airport, my badge was only for restricted areas and I, and whole my team, respected that. And this for cleaners, technicians, cabin crew, etc, etc.

And also this:

Brussels Airport is NOT responsible for the quantity of security staff at the borders. They do not hire them and pay them. Securitas and the government does.
The minister of transport, Ethienne Schouppe, was the person who decided last week not to reduce the number of security people at the borders.
Don't shoot Brussels Airport in this case.

Second: The security cost last year was increased with 3,3% or in other words: 31,2 million euro.
tolipanebas wrote:
(one of the top 5 costly airports in EU)

Of course you are saying that because SN is a client of BAC and clients wants to pay less.
Pax don't care about this because they are not aware of it. Most of them bought a whole package.
See the increased number of pax since 2005.
tolipanebas wrote: Not difficult at all, but for the small fact that the owner of BRU wants to milk the airport till the last drop, meaning BRU has RIDICULOUSLY HIGH TAXES combined with one of the LOWEST EXPLOITATION COSTS (hence the long waiting times).
That's doing business, my friend. Macquarie Airports invested in BRU and spend every year a huge amount in BRU. Very normal that they want a return in investment. We see this in every company: small, midsized and major.
Last edited by Atlantis on 15 May 2009, 19:55, edited 1 time in total.

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SN_fan
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by SN_fan » 15 May 2009, 19:27

tolipanebas wrote:
SN_fan wrote:checking pilots => good, it doesn't matter that there is a huge axe near them, it's know to be there, and if they want to crash there own plane, ok there is nothing you can do about it, but they can smuggle weapons in the secure area pass it to others and they can use it on other planes.
And pilots can't give this axe away to a passenger-terrorist if they have any bad intentions, or what??? :roll:
I don't need to smuggle in any weapon which I could then pass on like you suggest; I have a set of weapons waiting for me on board which I could pass on with much more ease... :idea:
SN_fan wrote:About the technicians, about the tools they are required to use: they should have tools in the secure area and every day an inventory should be made to see if anything is missing.
And how do you match the idea of all those tools being readily available inside the secure area with the idea that anybody who has legal access to them could pass them on to a terrorist on the airport like you've launched yourself in the paragraph above when you were talking pilots?
Well, if someone passes those "weapons", it is know who did it, and then that person can be prosecuted, it's simple. It's like putting a CCTV in a store to prevent people stealing as they know they are filmed.

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by euroflyer » 15 May 2009, 21:12

Hm, honestly, I think of course pilots and all other staff needs to be searched as well. They do mix between the security and the gates with all other pax and would otherwise be able to pass on any illegal obejcts to anybody, as well to people who will be on different planes than those they will fly themselves. Plus, it might at the end very well be possible to counterfeit a pilot ID and dress like a pilot. Not searching pilot and other staff would be really very very careless. And you see it regularly at other airports that airline staff is treated in the same way as all pax (well, except for they do not have to wait in the queue ;) ).

Technicians should in my view not move with their tools through the terminal to a plane. They should go by car or however via the tarmac to the plane which they need to work on. So they cannot mix with pax and pass on any tools. Companies doing work with tools inside the terminal for maintenance or anything should be very well selected, people need to be checked for the reliability and their tools of course need to be checked when arriving and leaving (I would expect this not to take place at the security control for pax but at a separate entrance).
I really cannot see how one can think ANY group of persons should be allowed in the terminal gate area or close to the planes without having been checked :shock: Than you can stop the whole security controls at all.

Back to the topic: I left yesterday afternoon (boarding was 16.45) from the A pier, there was no security "chaos", everything normal. And so far I can not say security controls take very long in Brussels compared to other EU airports. Come to Frankfurt Monday morning 7h30 as an eco pax without any LH status or not flying with *Alliance. Waiting 30 minutes will be the MINIMUM you can expect ... :evil:
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A300 A318 A319 A320 A321 A340 B737 B747 B757 B767 MD81 MD82 MD90 Tu134 IL18 BAe146 RJ85 RJ100 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 ERJ145 E170 E195 F50 F70 F100 ATR42 ATR72 Q300 Q400
http://my.flightmemory.com/euroflyer

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by tolipanebas » 15 May 2009, 21:50

euroflyer wrote:I really cannot see how one can think ANY group of persons should be allowed in the terminal gate area or close to the planes without having been checked :shock: Than you can stop the whole security controls at all.
Technicians aren't going inside the terminal, they go straight from the hangar to the plane which needs to be visited, yet they get searched just like the pax: totally pointless, because their car is full of tools which are 'exempted' from search... :roll:
Same for pilots (at least the BRU based): straight from the crewroom to their aircraft, without ever mingling with the pax in the terminal...

Regardless, as so often the outsiders think it is a good thing to search those people too just like anybody else (although it is basically pointless and/or inherently useless), but obviously insiders know nothing about it, do they? :roll:

I am not going to discuss this any further, because clearly too many people strongly believe they do get more security from all this (which they aren't in my view), so back to topic, I'd like to say:
Are they going to hire hundreds of extra people to staff the security checkpoints and add extra X-ray machines to cope with the security fever BRU has caught... or is this going to end the usual way, being relaxed again in a couple of weeks when the spotlight has moved away? Knowing BRU, I know what I'd put my money on... ;-)

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by taz001 » 16 May 2009, 14:27

Just something I saw yesterday evening around 20h45 a line (2 lanes were open, fastlane included) from security, passing the chocolate counter all the way to the border checkpoint. I had a quick look and between that time and 24h00 there were only about 8 more flights foreseen to leave from the B-terminal.

BTW, I do believe staff have to be checked the same as passengers when going to the gate, except that I think they do not have to get mixed up in line with passengers. BAC should keep a staff entrance open at all times (at least when they are flights foreseen). Nothing is more frustrating for staff as well as passenger when staff has to squeeze through a line a long waiting passengers. Staff does not have the 'luxury' to wait in line. And I do not believe there is an airline in BRU that can afford it to leave a certain amount of staff in the gates area a whole shift.

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by Fubar » 16 May 2009, 15:56

Just a little reply to set some things straight.

the cuts for the security were not for securitas, in fact they are getting more tasks.
The cuts were ment for the Airport Inspection Security. Those are mandatet inspectors by the ''Directoraat generaal van de luchtvaart''. They follow an extended training at police school, DOVO, ICAO, DGLV and the airport. The original plan was to cut the Inspectors and to keep the officers to be legally right. Then outsource the tasks of the inspectors to securitas. Shouppe has intervined which was a good thing. Those inspectors get an EXTENSIVE training of a half year, after several exams and evaluations of a half year they MIGHT become inspector of the airport inspection security. For example a securitas agent had to follow a training which is NEVER comparibel with those of the inspectors. I'm not gonna talk about their tasks, because their to extensive. But, their IMPORTANT. Aswel ont the screening platforms, the building itself and especially tarmac.

The gigantic qeues at the security sheck are due to the new reglmentations set by europe. The searches are the same, only with one sort of 'alarm' at the gate. Than an extensive procedure has to be followed which takes allot of time. This and only this is the cause of those qeues.

b-west

Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by b-west » 16 May 2009, 16:36

the cuts for the security were not for securitas,
That's not what I hear from the securitas people...
The gigantic qeues at the security sheck are due to the new reglmentations set by europe. The searches are the same, only with one sort of 'alarm' at the gate. Than an extensive procedure has to be followed which takes allot of time. This and only this is the cause of those qeues.
Don't blame the procedures. If there are 7 lanes available, and only 2 or 3 are open, then a queue can be easily solved by opening extra security lanes, but that ofcourse requires extra staff, which brings us back to the beginning of this post.

As for the extra security... I always find it funny that the police also has to go through the security. I mean... what are they gonna tell them
"sir, are you carrying any fire-arms?"
"well, as a matter of fact..."

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tolipanebas
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by tolipanebas » 16 May 2009, 17:29

b-west wrote:I always find it funny that the police also has to go through the security. I mean... what are they gonna tell them
"sir, are you carrying any fire-arms?"
"well, as a matter of fact..."
ROTFL...

That's indeed another category of people working at the airport who now regularly get harrested by all those security people called in to enforce the tightened new security measures!

As I've said: airport security is NOT compatible with common sense and strangely enough the public at large seems to like just that, as several reactions in this discussion have shown us... :roll:

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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by Fubar » 16 May 2009, 18:05

@Bwest

There were cuts done with securitas. But this time, the press really ment ''the airport inspection security'' (83 inspectors). By all means, the chaos now, is not due to a sudden cut (or wanted cut) in the budget of securitas.

I cannot argue with that, its true. Cannot only blame procedures.

But, the fact stays, if the new procedures werent set, the qeues would be allot smaller. I can really confirm you, this one new procedure takes allot more time for the same ammount of pax as before.

The amount of securitas agents are set by a prognose of amount of pax. The prognose is made of information they receive from the airliner(amount of pax) and an average calculated by a very complicated algoritm. So, yesterday (and today) the amount of agents asked by the airport inspection was met, no problem. But, yet again a queu from the platform till the bordercontrol.

b-west

Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by b-west » 16 May 2009, 20:27

Then I suppose the complex algorithm hasn't been adapted to the new security rules yet? ;)

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Conti764
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Re: Security chaos at Brussels last night

Post by Conti764 » 17 May 2009, 15:32

One way for BAC to cut expenses for security is to slim down their own security (meaning firing all contracted staff and gradually reduce overall security staff by not replacing retiring mandated staff) and let them be replaced by state payed police officers. But I doubt that BAC would let their last grip on security at the airport be overtaken by police.

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