Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam - TK1951

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BigOoze
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by BigOoze » 25 Feb 2009, 12:47

Looks like at least 5 casualties, unfortunately.
Last edited by BigOoze on 25 Feb 2009, 12:55, edited 1 time in total.

BigOoze
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by BigOoze » 25 Feb 2009, 12:53

Live video stream from NOS website:
http://www.nos.nl/journaal24

Looks like all of the wounded have been evacuated. Unfortunately, some bodies can be seen under white sheets.
:-(

TCAS_climb
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by TCAS_climb » 25 Feb 2009, 13:27

Hey Jan, are you working for Turkish Airlines or what ?

One way or another we're all affected by the situation and of course think about the crew, pax and relatives. Especially since it is happening right now.

No hard feelings intended but I think your request to shut up would be appropriate if we were the investigation team. They're the ones who cannot speculate. But we're far from being that. It's just a forum where people voice their concerns, worries, stress, opinions, interrogations, etc. It's like a pub.

Of course there are also some stupid journo's here who know close to nothing about aviation and try to squeeze some juicy information. But since when should we surrender our freedom of speach because of idiots ? As long as it's not offensive to the victims or libellous I don't see the problem of speculating on purely technical matters.

LX-LGX
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by LX-LGX » 25 Feb 2009, 13:42

Confirmed by the airport director during the first official press conference:

so far 9 fatalities and 50 injured, from which 25 in serious condition.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by jan_olieslagers » 25 Feb 2009, 13:54

Belgian official media "www.deredactie.be" now announcing "Niet de eerste crash voor Turkish Airlines" ("not THY's first crash") thereby implying the airline's safety record would be sub-standard. The whole text of course bases on "sommige experten" ("certain experts") without mentioning any names. Absolutely scandalous, the kind of "information" I only expect from UK tabloids. I do hope the Turkish authorities will protest - they have my full support!
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 25 Feb 2009, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

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earthman
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by earthman » 25 Feb 2009, 13:57

jan_olieslagers wrote:
No fire, could this mean it was out of fuel or something like that?
What do you mean by "something like that" ? Out of fuel is out of fuel. Birdstrike is birdstrike.
But yes it could be out of fuel, yes.
It could also be a zillion other things.
Well something could have happened to the fuel that caused it to not burn.
jan_olieslagers wrote: How many times must we still insist NOT to speculate?
Please wait for official info, it will surely come when available.
I think one of the purposes of a discussion on a forum is to speculate as to what might have caused it. Then people with expert knowledge might respond saying why it could or couldn't have been the cause, and the other participants in the discussion expand their knowledge.

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earthman
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by earthman » 25 Feb 2009, 14:00

I'm a little horrified how on one of the photos you can see parts of seats sticking out of the plane through the hole in the place where the front separated from the center...

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earthman
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by earthman » 25 Feb 2009, 14:05

By the way, the plane crashed at the 'wrong' side of the A9 highway, i.e. it was trying to land on the runway which started at the other side of the highway but crashed before the highway. The A9 is a very busy highway and it's very fortunate that the plane didn't crash onto the highway.

b720
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by b720 » 25 Feb 2009, 14:24

Indeed VRT teletext news bulletin.. about Turkish airline's safety record is of poor taste to say the least.
At this moment, when we are still counting casualties.. the media should show a bit of professionalism..

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euroflyer
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by euroflyer » 25 Feb 2009, 14:42

b720 wrote:Indeed VRT teletext news bulletin.. about Turkish airline's safety record is of poor taste to say the least.
At this moment, when we are still counting casualties.. the media should show a bit of professionalism..
Yes, but therefore you need professionals ... It is so much easier to blame again those people from 'far away', 'exotic' countries whom 'we' always suspected not to be able to follow instructions correctly, not to fulfill the maintenance requirements, to be somewhat relaxed about safety rules and who probably use very old planes and do not speak proper English :( Even if you will tell them many planes of B.Air or LH or etcetera etcetera are (much) older than this THY 737-800 they will not believe you :(
But I agree, it is a shame such journalists are still allowed to work
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LX-LGX
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by LX-LGX » 25 Feb 2009, 14:54

jan_olieslagers wrote:Belgian official media "www.deredactie.be" now announcing "Niet de eerste crash voor Turkish Airlines" ("not THY's first crash") thereby implying the airline's safety record would be sub-standard. The whole text of course bases on "sommige experten" ("certain experts") without mentioning any names. Absolutely scandalous, the kind of "information" I only expect from UK tabloids. I do hope the Turkish authorities will protest - they have my full support!
Take a look at this list, and then tell me if today's crash was the first one for THY. Actually, it's one deadly crash every 5 years or so for them. So the VRT is/was right: THY has a poor safety record.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/airl ... h+Airlines

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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by jan_olieslagers » 25 Feb 2009, 15:09

According to that site, they have 13 crashes over a 44 year period. Not too bad, compared to KLM (9 crashes over a 27 year period) or Sabena (5 crashes in 9 years). Or are those unsafe airlines too?

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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by LX-LGX » 25 Feb 2009, 15:28

jan_olieslagers wrote:According to that site, they have 13 crashes over a 44 year period. Not too bad, compared to KLM (9 crashes over a 27 year period) or Sabena (5 crashes in 9 years). Or are those unsafe airlines too?
It is unbelievable, the way you read accident statistics.

Sabena had 5 crashes, yes. But not in 9 years, as you say: in the whole 75 years of its existance. And Sabena had no crashes in modern time aviation - let's say the last 20-30-40 years.

KLM : not 9 crashes in 27 years, but 8 crashes in its 80 years of existance. And their last one (the Tenerife runway collision) dates from 31 years ago.

LX-LGX
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by LX-LGX » 25 Feb 2009, 15:30

There's a new press conference announced for 16h00 AMS-time

(live on Dutch NOS-tv).

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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by jan_olieslagers » 25 Feb 2009, 15:39

LX-LGX wrote:
jan_olieslagers wrote:According to that site, they have 13 crashes over a 44 year period. Not too bad, compared to KLM (9 crashes over a 27 year period) or Sabena (5 crashes in 9 years). Or are those unsafe airlines too?
Sabena had 5 crashes, yes. But not in 9 years, as you say: in the whole 75 years of its existance. And Sabena had no crashes in modern time aviation - let's say the last 20-30-40 years.

KLM : not 9 crashes in 27 years, but 8 crashes in its 80 years of existance. And their last one (the Tenerife runway collision) dates from 31 years ago.
My mistake, sorry.

b720
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by b720 » 25 Feb 2009, 15:45

I still think that it is of poor taste to discuss the record of THY at this moment.. we are still collecting
body parts. relatives are still at the airports.. plenty of time to discuss this matter later on. I think that VRT
reporting as such implies that the accident took place because THY is an airline with a bad reputation. let us first wait for the results of the investigation.. it could well be that the accident was unavoidable, just real bad luck.
Finally, we have the EU black list. THY is not on it, hence the airline is flying into the EU.. which means that the airline adheres to all norms required by IATA EU etc.. our thoughts right now are with the relatives and friends of the victims, and the injured.

LX-LGX
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by LX-LGX » 25 Feb 2009, 16:59

b720 wrote:I still think that it is of poor taste to discuss the record of THY at this moment.. we are still collecting
body parts. relatives are still at the airports.. plenty of time to discuss this matter later on. I think that VRT eporting as such implies that the accident took place because THY is an airline with a bad reputation. let us first wait for the results of the investigation.. it could well be that the accident was unavoidable, just real bad luck.
Finally, we have the EU black list. THY is not on it, hence the airline is flying into the EU.. which means that the airline adheres to all norms required by IATA EU etc.. our thoughts right now are with the relatives and friends of the victims, and the injured.
Why are we not allowed to discuss THY's safety record? This accident didn't happened because of their (un)safety record, but VRT didn't suggested that. But it happened and that is a fact, like it or not.

CNN was much more severe for THY : while we had photo's only from rescuers taking out at least 5 bodies, the president from THY mentionned during a press conference that all survived the crash, CNN mentionned. They will to explain this later - said CNN.

Rumours : pilot and co-pilot haven't survived the crash. Actually, at this very moment they are still trapped inside (source: De Telegraaf online).

Rumours : during final approach, the plane suddenly lost altitude - and crashed (source : two passengers on NOS-tv).

Rumours : fuel shortage could well be the cause (source : De Telegraaf online).

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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by grnkg » 25 Feb 2009, 18:50

My 2 cents:

YES it is (much) too soon to determine the cause of the accident, let alone to point a finger on anyone or anything.

From what I heard so far: high pitch attitude and very slow approach speed, it looks as if they lost power. The BA B777 at Heathrow comes to mind...

YES the media is unprofessional (again). But that's not new. Most annoying to me was the "journalist" on VTM nieuws asking if the B737 is a safe airplane :shock: Are you f#cking kidding me? Something like 6000 built with 75% of them still in service clocking up more than 20 million hours each year!

And finally, NO it is not forbidden to discuss probable cause on a forum. I don't see in what way this is unrespectful to the people involved, victims, relatives,... After all, the "real" investigation to the cause of the accident is also already well underway.

Kind regards,
GR.


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grnkg
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Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by grnkg » 25 Feb 2009, 20:24

Obviously, that engine was not running on impact.

Kind regards,
GR.

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