Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam - TK1951

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Propwash

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by Propwash »

Because the Dutch Transport Safety Board (DTSB) had to negotiate with THY, LVNL and Boeing), the final report will be officially released on May 6th (source)
The Dutch Safety Board performs independent, comprehensive investigations into the causes or probable causes of individual – or categories ....
If Boeing is indeed 'held' reliable for 80%(?), I 'personally' don't thrust the DTSB anymore.

flightlover
Posts: 661
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by flightlover »

Propwash wrote: If Boeing is indeed 'held' reliable for 80%(?), I 'personally' don't thrust the DTSB anymore.
I Think that you mean boeing is being helt accountable for 80%, meaning not to rely on.
If they would have been 80% reliable they would be safe to trust.

Boeing get's the blame in this case.

Propwash

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by Propwash »

flightlover wrote:I Think that you mean boeing is being helt accountable for 80%,...
You're correct ;)

Sorry for the misprint.

Before jumping into my own conclusion, I'll read the the final report multiple times first.
Right now, blaming Boeing for 80% doesn't make common sense to me.

Where are the 'good old' basic scanning and Flying skills these days (AVIATE, Navigate and Communicate).
Example: if disconnection doesn't seem to work, you immediately pull the circuit breaker (CB).
Can't modern pilots, think, handle and act 'fast' by themselves anymore?

What's next?
Aircraft manufacturer instrument panel placard (or something ...):
"Not maintaining basic scanning cycles, basic flying skills, monitoring flight- and engine data etc. etc. can lead to serious injury or dead"

BTW In accordance with Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, it is not the purpose of aircraft accident investigation to apportion blame or liability. The sole objective of the investigation and the Final Report is the determination of the causes, and define recommendations in order to prevent future accidents and incidents (source)

Propwash

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by Propwash »

Polder crash assistance price tag Safety Region Kennemerland 700.000 Eur.

Article in Dutch here (NU.nl)

Propwash

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by Propwash »

Ongeluk Turkish Airlines: piloten reageerden niet goed
Update: donderdag 6 mei 2010, 11:01

Turkish Airlines vlucht TK1951 is vorig jaar februari vlak voor de Polderbaan neergestort door een samenloop van een technische storing en fouten van zowel de piloten als de luchtverkeersleiding. Dat concludeert de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid in zijn rapport dat vandaag is verschenen.

Source

In other words, a massive Crew F*ck Up.


Propwash

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam

Post by Propwash »

As expected Turkish Airlines wanna clean their own butt (doesn't agree with ..) :thumbdown:

Turkish Airlines is het niet eens met rapport (6 mei 2010 14:52 NU.nl)

Yeah, blaming Boeing for their own 'first class' Crew incompetence (lack of fundamental basic Flying skills), lack of following SOPs etc. etc.

Note: see also article (Flightglobal) Turkish Airlines crash: evidence points to pilots

Passenger
Posts: 6768
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Turkish Airlines B737 crashes in Schiphol Amsterdam - TK1951

Post by Passenger »

From the topic "Boeing 737 (MAX) news:
sn26567 wrote:
20 Jan 2020, 22:49
The New York Times examines the 2009 crash of flight TK1951 of Turkish Airlines 737-800 in Amsterdam (an accident that killed several Boeing engineers) and finds parallels to the design problems that caused the MAX crashes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/busi ... dents.html
Excerpts:
"The Dutch investigators focused blame on the pilots for failing to react properly when an automated system malfunctioned and caused the plane to plummet into a field, killing nine people.
...
The fault was hardly the crew’s alone, however. Decisions by Boeing, including risky design choices and faulty safety assessments, also contributed to the accident on the Turkish Airlines flight
."
...
Meanwhile, Boeing seeks to borrow $10 billion or more amid 737 MAX crisis!
...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN1ZJ27T
Excerpt:
"The company has estimated the costs of the 737 MAX grounding at more than $9 billion to date, and is expected to disclose significant additional costs during its fourth-quarter earnings release on Jan. 29. "
As a reply to the above article in the NYT (20/01/2020), the Dutch Safety Board (Onderzoeksraad voor de Veiligheid) today (21/01/2020) states: "...De Onderzoeksraad heeft in 2010 het rapport gepubliceerd naar de crash van Turkish Airlines. Bij het onderzoek is gebruik gemaakt van een deelstudie uitgevoerd door prof. Dekker. Omdat er afgelopen dagen vragen zijn gerezen over betreffende deelstudie, heeft de Raad deze inmiddels gepubliceerd op de website..."

As a reply to the above article in the NYT, the Dutch Safety Board has now published the partial report from 2009 "Flight Crew Human Factors Investigation, prof. Sidney Dekker":

Link: pdf 3,68 MB:

https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/nl/docume ... -s.-dekker

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