Jetairfly boeing 767 delayed today

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Well if I have a family of 4, I certainly don't want to drive to Amsterdam/Dusseldorf... to go on holiday! Furthermore, if you book a holiday through a travel agent, he's more likely to offer you a package from a Belgian tour operator, not a foreign one! So no sorry not much choice!

I certainly didn't even consider flying from Manchester, Newcastle or East Midlands on my last holiday! It is a question of convenience that is all!

And if there were many Belgians using neighbouring airports such as dusseldorf for say EK, think EK would be a bit more keen to start flying from BRU!

People using further away airports is just a dream and you people are overstating the numbers grossly! Business pax may leisure pax no too much hassle! It is the supply side that impacts demand. You'll see how the numbers of Belgians going to Thailand will jump up when Thomas Cook if I remember correctly start flying there...

[sabenatechnics]

Who's maintaining the A/C???

LHT or SNT???

they do there maintenance their selfs its called tech for jets.

[b720]

who says ou need to drive? You can fly from brussels and connect at one of those airports..
Bru is very badly connected to airports outside of europe and africa.. You'll need to connect somewhere
for almost any destination in Asia, latin america, most of North america.. better connecting at LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA etc (your trip is 2-3 hours longer, but hey you clock in more miles) still better than waiting 14 hours due to a technical snag..

[teddybAIR]

Jezus, is it so hard to realise that the most convenient way to get from brussels to Punta Cana is directly from Brussels to Punta Cana? Certainly if the touroperator has a contract with an airline to fill a certain amount of seats per year? Don't you think that the majority of customers will choose for the most convenient option? I know I would!

[b720]

Yes, I would too.. But not on an airline that is UNRELIABLE. as simple as that, the second best option is connecting somewhere, until a reliable airline flies that route.. The issue is not convenience, it is reliability.
We should not defend jetairfly blindly just because it is a Belgian airline. The same scenario coming from an airline based in paris or Amsterdam or god forbid Kinshasa or Dhakka would have not gotten a single positive post on this forum.. they should concentrate on their middle range routes, drop long range untill they can afford a second and third long haul aircraft..getting stranded at punta cana for 10-20-30 hours is not a solution.. and that does not happen once a year, it is frequent.

[zwark]

Hi,

I flew OO-TUC on 20/01/2009 to CUN and came back on 30/01/2009, both flights were perfectly on time and OO-TUC feels really safe. I did a little follow-up in the three months before our departure and must say that it flew on time most of the times.

It's clear that this plane is old and a bit crappy from the inside. Some overhead lockers are broken, try the toilet between C and Y class on the right side and youll see that the light switch doesn't always do wat it is supposed to.... but these are details and have nothing to do with the plane's reliability or safety.

A few years ago if there was a delay, if would be noticeable a whole week, this time I saw that PH-AHY (Arkefly) came in to do the BRU-VRA-CUN-BRU and departed fairly on time. If the plane you have to take breaks down, best you can hope is that it will be repaired within a decent delay or that a replacement bird can be found within that same decent delay. And admitted if a spare aircraft is available in BRU, it would help a lot. But don't expect miracles and the same s**t can happen with any company.

[Novastar]

@ Zwark and teddyBAir

I understand what you mean but that's not the point. I'm sure they will not let that plane take off if it's not safe. You're missing the point.

The point is that, whatever the specifics are on OO-TUC's and Jetairfly's situation, once again pax are the victim for the xxx th time of OO-TUC breaking down.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Jezus, is it so hard to realise that the most convenient way to get from brussels to Punta Cana is directly from Brussels to Punta Cana? Certainly if the touroperator has a contract with an airline to fill a certain amount of seats per year? Don't you think that the majority of customers will choose for the most convenient option? I know I would!

Exactly! Most comments here are made by people that don't have a family, nor kids! Before judging some people here should really ask their parents why they don't drive 200 km to get a better/"safer"/more reliable service to fly to their holidays! The answer is that most people don't care and have more important things to worry about than a plane that may or may not take them to their holiday destination with or without a delay!

Get a life people! Transport is an intermediary good! It is not a purpose in itself, it just brings u from A to B! When I go on holiday I go for the destination, not the airline!

We should not defend jetairfly blindly just because it is a Belgian airline. The same scenario coming from an airline based in paris or Amsterdam or god forbid Kinshasa or Dhakka would have not gotten a single positive post on this forum.. they should concentrate on their middle range routes, drop long range untill they can afford a second and third long haul aircraft..getting stranded at punta cana for 10-20-30 hours is not a solution.. and that does not happen once a year, it is frequent.

Lol and what if Iive in Belgium and fancy a nice holiday in the caribbeans? A journey to AMS or CDG would really put me off and probably wouldn't go! It is as simple as that! Very useful!
And what would they do with a 2nd and 3rd aircraft? Leave on the ground waiting for OO-TUC to break down?

Irrealistic!

[stefanel]

Novastar,

I myself had once a delay of 12h with JAF's 767 OO-TUC to Varadero,Cuba with a 3 year child.

I agree it's no fun but we were called at home to say we're on a delay, so we weren't
so long on the airport. What happened today with the passengers?
We get a very nice sum of money back ( for only 12h ) and we were arriving 6 am instead of 17h PM in Varadero! ( I think I prefer this time- shedule instead of the normal one, people with kids will
agree this )
I'll say it wasn't so bad for the kid but...I agree it isn't nice !
Especially when you must wait in the airport, at least you get a meal/drink.. (but nowadays).
( Once with CX we'll get a free tour in HKG,Iberia a free tour of Soweto in JNB, only nothing
with KLM except a meal )
I don't travel that much ( 2x a year) but I'll had my portion of delays and ..
It happen often ( with me) with many carriers and most of the time the result wasn't that bad !
Of course I'm no business man wo needs to be on time, but when this happened on the other
part of the world, the plane was filled with 80-90 percent lucky people with 12h of an
extra holiday !
Don't say this don't happen ! See the news !
People will argue this only to try some cash out of it (I would do the same ) , but they think by themself mmm...

Ya, both sides of a story, but I agree, in BRU with a holiday-head booked only 8 days.. It's hell !

Greetings and for the possessed pax , still enjoy the caribbean !
For OO-TUC ... Thx for adding a new repeating topic... can't wait for the next one... haha

Greetings CX-B

Somebody knew what the problem was (this time?) ?

well you are lucky because I had a 15 hour delay from Cancun to Brussels in November 2007 and I never got any money back although I know the European law regarding airline compensation, and I sent them all pieces of evidence (extra night at the hotel, one restaurant, taxi there and in Brussels due to arrival at 3 am, all in all about 100€ (for two persons, admit it is more than reasonable because my hotel in Cancun was the cheapest one 25€ while you have super luxurious ones and same for the food) and I never got a cent back ! They are just totally ignoring the law and I making things up : the only thing they explained in their letter was that the technical fault on this famous OO-TUC was a case of force majeure!!!
Can you imagine? I've worked for a carrier and I know what a case of majeure in transportation is ! Everything but a technical problem.
If anyone can help me solve this up, I'm just writing on and on and they will say no more : they are just sticking to their initial decision without wanting to explain anything.
I'm totally disgusted because I know my rights and their legal obligations but they just won't do anything, which is as unbelievable as unacceptable.

[teddybAIR]

It is always the same discussion over and over again.

I have family living on Mallorca, meaning I often fly between EBBR and LEPA. A route that is unfortunately quite often plagued by delays. Yet, I often find myself to be one of the few people that remain calm. A lot of people fail to understand that the delay is mostly in their own interest. The most constructive reaction they can think of is to start yelling at the staff.
The simple matter of the fact is that it doesn't matter how many small children are on board, it doesn't matter how many disabled people are on the flight, nor how early your meeting the next morning is: if the plane is not ready for the flight, it should never take off.
Agreed, TUC seems to have more than it's fair share of technicals. But what do you suggest? Honestly, what is your most constructive proposal to solve the situation??? I rather leave 12 hours late, with a plane and crew that is fit to fly than on time, but in a questionnable condition.

[b720]

A second or third plane in the hope that they would launch more destinations.. one plane is pathetic, and
can not be viable.

As for the option of changing planes.. we all do it, famillies and all.. if that is too much for you, you can simply fly to spain.. or Italy.. be realistic.. long haul destinations direct from Brussels?? You'll see the world in Three days indeed..

oh I forgot .. try India

[teddybAIR]

b720,

So your most constructive proposal is: get a 2nd or a 3rd plane?! And I am sure that you have extensive management experience in running a charter airline and are fully aware of the implications of "getting" a 2nd or 3rd aircraft?! Ever thought about how you are going to render it economically viable on the short term? Has it ever occured to you that the situation as it is today, might be the least of two evils, yet a deliberate choice by a management which realise that they are running a small belgian airline and prefer to guarantee the long term sustainability of the company compared to preventing occasional delays?

[Novastar]

It is always the same discussion over and over again.

I have family living on Mallorca, meaning I often fly between EBBR and LEPA. A route that is unfortunately quite often plagued by delays. Yet, I often find myself to be one of the few people that remain calm. A lot of people fail to understand that the delay is mostly in their own interest. The most constructive reaction they can think of is to start yelling at the staff.
The simple matter of the fact is that it doesn't matter how many small children are on board, it doesn't matter how many disabled people are on the flight, nor how early your meeting the next morning is: if the plane is not ready for the flight, it should never take off.
Agreed, TUC seems to have more than it's fair share of technicals. But what do you suggest? Honestly, what is your most constructive proposal to solve the situation??? I rather leave 12 hours late, with a plane and crew that is fit to fly than on time, but in a questionnable condition.

I don't think it is up to us to make any proposals at all. I'm not afraid to admit that everytime this happens, I inform VTM and HLN redactions with the hope they will put it on as an item in the news. The more it comes on the news, the more it will affect Jetair's reputation and maybe then they will finally do something about it.

Yes I do care about getting to my destination safely, but the tons of delays with this aircraft are solely's Jetair(fly)'s fault, as per 1) they bought/leased/whatever a crappy ex varig plane and 2) they one have one long-haul plane.
The pax are always the victim of this, and that's really all that matters.

[teddybAIR]

Well dear Novastar,

Congratulations on your constructive attitude! I hope you feel proud that you are contributing so positively to the transatlantic charter business by sending e-mails to a selection of what I can only describe as the most sensation oriented and questionnable editors. I am sure it will drive Jetairfly's management to replacing TUC before contract end date! Keep up the good work! Not! (Just for your own sake: did it ever occur to you that on average people have no clue which carrier will operate their flights...don't get me started on immatriculations. Only luchtzak members know on advance whether they will be on TUC or not...but whatsoever, feel free to carry on your noble initiative!)

Again, I agree that TUC has more than it's fair share of delays. But live with it: it is not going to change in the very near future! It will eventually change, within timeframes that are realistic for airlines to replace leased aircraft. Until then, let's just hope for as least as possible delays instead of alarming tabloid press who still think the A380 is boeing's new design to replace it's jumbojet, haha!

To the people who have been on TUC and experienced delays with it: I feel sorry for you people! Yet, do realise that it was in your own best interest that your flight got delayed. You don't want to be on the eight o'clock news because the captain left with a malfunctioning plane, do you?

[b720]

Teddyb.,

No need for sarcasm. nor the need to get personal..and finally kindly do not put words in my mouth.. Second or third plane, in the hope they would increase their long haul destinations.. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to know that one plane flying 2 and a half long haul destinations can not be viable. People are sick and tired of delays.. anyhow if the market conditions do not permit, maybe - as I stated earlier - they should considering axing these destinations, returning their infamous TUC and concentrate on their medium range flights.. voila.. that's it..their adventure accross the pond is amature at its best.. that is my opinion, and I stick to it, I and many more would never fly to punta cana with them for the obvious reasons.. I would rather reroute on another carrier.. I did not say that they are unsafe nor unworthy.. etc.. I just said that they are unreliable.. How can they be reliable with one plane???

[LX-LGX]

Some people here (if working in the aviation business) should have more contact with those who are paying them: the passenger. Yes, there are passengers who think that Cancun is a kingdom or an island somewhere in the Carribean area. But there also passengers who go to Mexico for the 10th time, just to learn once again more about the Aztecs.

Passengers are not supposed to wait 10 or 12 hours, like Jetairfly's clients yesterday and like Jetairfly's clients two weeks ago.

Passengers don't have to accept that their delay now guarantuees that their flight will be more sure. They don't need an excuse: they want an apology. Trust you understand the difference?

Passengers don't have to accept that a technical problem is an excuse. Technical problems should be avoided: during maintenance and during A/B/C/D/-checks.

Passengers do accept hand of God for delays (extreme weather conditions, bird strike, sick passenger on board).

Passengers are entitled to compensation, meals, hotel in case of a major disruption.

The problem with TUC is structural: basic maintenance has not been done during it's time with Varig, causing today's problems. Please note that ILFC has withdrawn some a/c from Varig because of malfunctions during maintenance. Meanwhile - and after some serious checks - main safety issues with this TUC have been taken care off.

[PiperPA19]

TUC is as safe as any other 767 flying around. Tech4Jets has no way to go around safety rules. End of story, I myself would fly this bird anytime. I heard TUC is going anyway (for cargo conversion apparently?-DHL??), and JAP will come in its place.
The only thing about TUC that can be said maybe is that the interior looks old and worn.

[sean1982]

Hello,

Do you guys actually know that percentually the 737-fleet has a lot more down-time then OO-TUC ? It is just more noticable on the long haul as for the moment untill OO-JAP arrives.BTW, it is not shure yet TUC will be going, no decision has been made yet. With the 737's there is more room for play as usually 1 is kept as a back-up

Secondly: Passengers don't want technical problems ?? What kind of a reaction is that? I don't want rain and wind either and sun shining every day. S**t happens you know, deal with.

Do you know that JAF is working together with arkefly to help out on the long-haul operations ? Things are being done about inconveniece but take times.

If you really think that a delay is a news item, I think you seriously need a reality check

Keeping more then 1 long-haul plane in Belgium in winter is not financially viable and not realistic. Also for airlines money doesn't drop out of the sky you know. Jetairfly is one of the best performing belgian airlines at the moment and management should be proud about what they accomplishing in an aviation negative country like Belgium;

As for all of you who still think that aviation is THE world of glitter and glamour where nothing is allowed to go wrong. I wish you a happy drive to CDG,AMS and FRA

[teddybAIR]

Keeping more then 1 long-haul plane in Belgium in winter is not financially viable and not realistic. Also for airlines money doesn't drop out of the sky you know. Jetairfly is one of the best performing belgian airlines at the moment and management should be proud about what they accomplishing in an aviation negative country like Belgium;

There you go!

[Novastar]

Well dear Novastar,

Congratulations on your constructive attitude! I hope you feel proud that you are contributing so positively to the transatlantic charter business by sending e-mails to a selection of what I can only describe as the most sensation oriented and questionnable editors. I am sure it will drive Jetairfly's management to replacing TUC before contract end date! Keep up the good work! Not! (Just for your own sake: did it ever occur to you that on average people have no clue which carrier will operate their flights...don't get me started on immatriculations. Only luchtzak members know on advance whether they will be on TUC or not...but whatsoever, feel free to carry on your noble initiative!)

Again, I agree that TUC has more than it's fair share of delays. But live with it: it is not going to change in the very near future! It will eventually change, within timeframes that are realistic for airlines to replace leased aircraft. Until then, let's just hope for as least as possible delays instead of alarming tabloid press who still think the A380 is boeing's new design to replace it's jumbojet, haha!

To the people who have been on TUC and experienced delays with it: I feel sorry for you people! Yet, do realise that it was in your own best interest that your flight got delayed. You don't want to be on the eight o'clock news because the captain left with a malfunctioning plane, do you?

so basically, the pax should be grateful and thank the airline for the hours of delay, as it allows them to get to their destination with a safe plane ? because that's what you are implicating. I think you forget one thing, and an important thing; pax are PAYING customers.

As long as you can't see that then this kind of discussion has no meaning for you to get involved.

oh and yes there is a reason why I inform hln and vtm. "that kind" of press like you said is the press that gets most attention, which is exactly what I want.