787 Delay, again

[RC20]

The following is very interesting

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/ ... ner27.html

So, they aren't replacing all the bad fasteners, the strike added maybe two months to the program (though stuff was still going on) and its delayed until June (and I am not taking any bets!)

No Dreamlifters through Anchorage in quite some time.

I would like to see it fly before I pass on.

[achace]

The following is very interesting

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/ ... ner27.html

So, they aren't replacing all the bad fasteners, the strike added maybe two months to the program (though stuff was still going on) and its delayed until June (and I am not taking any bets!)

No Dreamlifters through Anchorage in quite some time.

I would like to see it fly before I pass on.

O ye of little faith!

[euroflyer]

I read somewhere those days ANA would expect to take delivery of the first 787 in February 2010, is that in any way realistic (after the story of the 787 so far) if we still have - as far as I am aware - no confirmed date for the first flight

[earthman]

I would like to see it fly before I pass on.

Are you that old or that pessimistic? (or both?)

[RC20]

Not quite that old and not quite that pessimistic, but they just can't seem to get their act together. It would seem they would have been able to keep testing going without machinists, but then I don't know the organization or structure. So, a two month strike cases 4 more months of delay? Maybe once yhou loose momentum, it does take that to get up to speed.

Frustrated? maybe the best term. We aren't even looking at real production yet, not in test flight, all that computer power and megawatts sitting on the ground thinking about it. Sheese.

Not that its exclusive to Boeing, the A400 looks to be in some extremely serious trouble, and GB may abandon it.A380 keeps cutting back how many they will deliver this year and next.

Funny how Hazy calls Boeing unreliable, but says nothign about Aribus. Of course reliable Airbus by canceling the fregihter may have saved his bacon as he then converted them to pax versions, and the delivery time was not an issue (read that the demand is not there and happy to wait until it shows up). Guess it all depends on how the copin falls as to how you view delays.

Still, as far as I know, they haven't even done a taxi test with the 787. Maybe they are keeping git a big secret and doing it at night in rainstorms when no one can watch.

Supposedly they are starting to ramp up into assembling the next of the test aircraft.

Avweek reprots they have an interesitng proposal for a light twin aisel 757-200/300 amnd 787-3 replacments (even before it flew). Not sure how much market there is, but it would levrage the work on the 787 while they figure out what to do about the 737 (keep improvign it).

787 canclelations not quite as bad as the look as S7 want to lease their now and not be on the purchase hoook, which would seem like the leasing company in the middle East could have cut a deal. Hmm and more hmmm.

Airbus says the A350 is fixed, but they are still tinkering with details, learning how to assemble the system they chose.

[achace]

Good to see that you are getting at least some of your faith back RC!
Have to admit it gets a bit of a worry when the industry starts quoting timings which are way past my "use by" date.
Cheers

[LX-LGX]

Last week, Boeing also lost an order from 16 Dreamliners by LCAL (Dubai). According to their website (http://www.lcal.com), they have (or had?) ordered 21 x 787's "with early deliveries".

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... O.R7qCeLVc

[RC20]

I don't see the cancellations as huge issue, nor the delays

Getting the damned thing flying is critical or the whole thing collapses.

I am interigueb tye the Light Wide body that reaplces the 787-3 (you can say good by to that versions!).
They are refusing to extend its range, short to medium only, in order to keep it in its market segment. If they need range, then its the 7987-8.

It does make you wonder of P&Ws query for a w die body GTF engine was for that model (Call it the 787-Light (i.e 787-L). That's within reach of the first larger target hull for the engine which would be the 737.A320 replacements that keep getting put off.

The 787-L would put the crimp on the upper end of the A320 in some fleets.

They are being real quiet right now, though a lot of shuffling of financial people in the division.

However, I do want to see a firm date, progress like taxi tests and then get it flying and the follow up ones into test.

[RC20]

And now this

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ing08.html

Initially it looks damning, but they are exempting others (further in article) and nothing is said if the A350 can meet it as well.

I am ok with it as it take an unusual train of circumstances, one jet aircraft in 50 years brought down by a spark, and that had all sorts of odd issues to let it occur.

[earthman]

And now this

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ing08.html

Initially it looks damning, but they are exempting others (further in article) and nothing is said if the A350 can meet it as well.

I am ok with it as it take an unusual train of circumstances, one jet aircraft in 50 years brought down by a spark, and that had all sorts of odd issues to let it occur.

WTF? We can't make the plane safe enough so please relax the standards for us? And the FAA actually went with it?

Every time management takes decisions which go against engineer's objections, things go horribly wrong.

[flightlover]

I'm waiting for the moment the FAA says: there is no need for redundent safety measures any more. Would save loades of money in the developement and build of the plane....
And hey, as long as the systems work everything is just fine, wright?

[RC20]

I'll leave it to the big boys to figure out.

AvWeek says that first flight for the 787 is at the end of April.

And this may be one of those technical issues that crop up and still nagging the program (those I expected, two years late, no)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ane19.html

Lots of delays are beginning to be talked about. Good thing they have plenty of back orders, others will want to move up, so it may work out to hold production levels, but not increase them.

[earthman]

And this may be one of those technical issues that crop up and still nagging the program (those I expected, two years late, no)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ane19.html

Who cares about the brakes, stick a parachute on the plane or lay down some arrestor wires on the runway and get the thing flying first! The brakes won't be needed till the end of the test programme!

[smokejumper]

Or, cut some holes in the bottom of the fuselage and just let the flight test engineers drag their feet on the runway for braking (just like we did as kids!). Boeing could get volume price discounts on new shoes for each flight!

[achace]

Problem is that Boeing have shot themselves in the foot so often, even de-luxe Nikes wouldnt cope with the stress.

[achace]

Just been reading the latest 787 progress report in Fleetbuzz, very much a Boeing fan club.

Choice of words very interesting.

First flight in second quarter of 2009 and entry into service first quarter 2010 are now rather disingeniously worded as "tentative" Havent seen anything from Boeing saying that, and these are quotes from a Boeing VP to Fleetbuzz.

The other almost casual throwaway line mentions that they still have not finished the flight control software.

Could there be anything else?

[RC20]

A couple of items from Flight Global tht begins to brings some details out as to what going on

This one talks (amongst other items) the changes in the Chance Vought Fuselage section (30%) difference from the original ones.

We knew about the wing situation already, so thats not new. But 30% change is major.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ction.html

This one referents the date slipping to June, if they are lucky!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ks-to.html

I predicted from the beginning that doing both the new so called global supply system and the all composite was a huge mistake.

All composite was a move they had to make, but the global supply thing, no.
They obviously would have still had issues, but many of those would have been hugely mitigated time wise. Late yes, but not 2 year (plus).

Boeing set out to beat Airbus, and they sure have, A380 set a record for late, but the test A380s were in the air working the bugs out. Boeing hasn't even got it off the ground yet, and there will be more bugs you can be sure of that.

I hate to see it, but that's the reality.

Long term I think its going to be one of the all time famous aircraft (successful) but short term, ugh.

[RC20]

Some interesting rumors out that the 787 will fly TWO months sooner than scheduled (or Boeing worst case plan of end of June depending on how you want to interpret it).

That would explain why they put the lead test plane through the paint hangar and touched it up, otherwise it would make no sense. Sometimes rather than express irritation at a bone head move like I did, you should think of the reasons why they would do it (unfortunately with Boeing and the managing program , the first thing that leaps to mind is bonehead right now (as opposed to the technology and engineering which still need to be confimred but looks solid).

I saw the Dreamlifter come through Anchorage Wds, and back track shows its made two trips in the last week. Both from Japan to Seattle. So the pace is picking up on production as well.

Interesting it can't make that hop without re-fueling. I watched it take off, and it lifted off more like a half or 2/3 full 747, not a fully loaded one.

It was a quick turn around from what I had seen previously, about an hour and a half.

[Airbus330lover]

and.... postponed again !
No date, structure problems !!!

[PYX]

"EVERETT, Wash., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced that first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will be postponed due to a need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the aircraft.

The need was identified during the recent regularly scheduled tests on the full-scale static test airplane. Preliminary analysis indicated that flight test could proceed this month as planned. However, after further testing and consideration of possible modified flight test plans, the decision was made late last week that first flight should instead be postponed until productive flight testing could occur."
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
*********

Total complete Nonsense!
I bet they have known about this all along, and, in terms of recent events didn't want to say anything until after the Paris Airshow.

This a complete disgrace!
The senior executives, and I mean the very TOP OF THE PILE, every last one of them, should return their salaries and then they should ALL BE FIRED!

I tried to hang on as long as possible, but I no longer have any faith in Boeing or anything they say or do... WHAT HAPPENED to the company we once knew?
I still think the same idiots who ran McDonnell/Douglas into the ground are responsible for the demise of Boeing....

This is going to cost them BIG time....  The cancellations will flow like water over a damn and the orders will go to airbust.  As I said, the executives responsible, not the workers, should be
FIRED in DISGRACE...

My policy when traveling has always been the old, "If isn't Boeing, I'm not going," but no more.  A company that screwed up does not deserve any loyalty from the flying public or even from their own employees.
What a disaster Boeing has become!