US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

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luchtzak
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by luchtzak »

Nice ditching! Luckily all ended well! :thumbup:

flightlover
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by flightlover »

brieky wrote:Think we will never see this bird in the sky again.
I think that, if it wouldn't return to flight, it should go to a museum. Since this is one of the first planes to land successfully on the water while it is not meant to do so.

boul
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by boul »

My feeling was confirmed the captain being a glider-instructor. It confirms the importance gliding experience is able to contribute to overall airmanship. Gliding is considered being one of the purest ways to feel and master an airplane's behavior. No surprise lots of well known glider champions are among the best professional airline pilots.

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galaxy
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by galaxy »

boul wrote:No surprise lots of well known glider champions are among the best professional airline pilots.
Also Neil Armstrong,the first man on the moon is a glider pilot .

" Gliders, sail planes, they're wonderful flying machines. It's the closet you can come to being a bird " , says Armstrong.

DC3 Fan
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by DC3 Fan »

Just heard on the TV news that both engines are missing from the wings of the A320. I wonder if this could be why the plane didn't summersault? One might have expected the engines to trip the aircraft, as sometimes happens in light aircraft landing on a soft, muddy field.

achace
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by achace »

The engines have a shear pin in the pylon so that if there was a catastrophic failure like thrown fan blades, the engine would break free to avoid any damage to the wings primary structure.

Speaking of glider pilots, therre was a famous incident in New Zealand with a DC3 which hit a mountain in a flat attitude having been caught on the downside of a standing wave, for which NZ is famous in gliding circles.

The moral of the tale was that had the pilot had gliding experience, he would have identified his predicament, and would have been able to recover. He tried to recover by simply applying power which didnt work.
Cheers

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Lyulka
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Lyulka »

At least the concorde in the background of the video was left with dry feet!

Glad it ended OK for everybody.

LX-LGX
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by LX-LGX »

Video (landing and rescue), U.S. Coast Guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mLKfRVU3qM

At the bottom left of the video, you will see the US CG time indication. Proceed to 3:31:00 PM

The other time indication, from youtube: proceed to exactly 2 minutes from the 10 minutes.

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by DC3 Fan »

NTSB corrected its previous statement and now says that one engine is still attached to a wing. That makes me wonder about asymmetric water drag on touchdown and how the wings were kept level.

A question: can anyone relate how the fly-by-wire Airbus system is powered with both engonis shut down? Presumably there was no time to start the APU. How long does the air turbine take to deploy, and does it provide sufficient power?

Nevihta
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Nevihta »

DC3 Fan wrote:A question: can anyone relate how the fly-by-wire Airbus system is powered with both engonis shut down? Presumably there was no time to start the APU. How long does the air turbine take to deploy, and does it provide sufficient power?
Batteries ?

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by DC3 Fan »

Good question! I thought of batteries, but then wondered if they had enough power to operate the flight controls as opposed to just the electronics.

Bralo20
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Bralo20 »

DC3 Fan wrote:A question: can anyone relate how the fly-by-wire Airbus system is powered with both engonis shut down? Presumably there was no time to start the APU. How long does the air turbine take to deploy, and does it provide sufficient power?

After losing the enginepower in all engines batteries can provide just enough power untill the RAT is deployed. A RAT (Ram Air Turbine) is a small turbine which can be deployed under the aircraft when power is lost. It is hidden in the fuselage or sometimes in the wing and will become only visible when deployed. The RAT will generate power (hydraulic or electrical) through the airstream to power the necessary flight controls. The higher the speed, the more power generated.

Batteries are only sufficient to generate power between all power loss and deploying the RAT.

USA1549 used the RAT to power the controls.

;)

Bralo20
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Bralo20 »

Some "news" about USA1549:

* Plane has been lifted out of the Hudson, will be towed to an unspecified location for examination.
* Second engine probably located by sonar equipped vessels, divers will check this and this engine will also be salvaged.
* Copilot whas flying the plane during take off, pilot took control after the contact with the birds and the engine loss
* Pilot said to the airport they lost both engines due multiple bird strikes and that they tried to go back
* Pilot took decision to crashland the plane on the Hudson in the direct proximity of multiple vessels to increase the chances of a rescue since they couldn't make it to an airport without elliminating the posibility to crash into land.
* Radiocommunications between USA1549 and control have been disclosed, transcripts will probably follow soon
* First 2 emergency calls to 911 has been disclosed.
...

Airlinepilot
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Airlinepilot »

Copilot whas flying the plane during take off, pilot took control after the contact with the birds and the engine loss
He guys,

x Copilot (first officer) & Captain = pilots . THE Captain is not necessary 'the pilot'. It sometimes really annoys me how this gets mixed up. In the media it is even worse, they speak about 'the pilot' being a hero. Most pax. planes operate with a two man crew. (and in this case the entire crew (flightcrew + cabin crew) are heroes.)

x Airbus A320: Fly by wire aircraft = flight controls (ailerons, elevator, spoilers ....) are hydraulically operated but electronically controlled (except for the rudder and the elevator trim, which still have a direct cable connection).
Three main hydraulic systems, two of them powered by hydraulic ENGINE pumps, one by an ELECTRONICAL pump.

Apparently they suffered multiple bird strikes on take-off which caused (assumption from my side on) an engine stall or an engine severe damage (partial fan blade failure/cuts or bends) or an engine flame out. ( all on both engines).

They managed to fly an other 3 minutes after take off = there was some power left on one or both engines. This is quite normal for a severe damage or an engine stall. The engine still delivers some power but there is a BIG problem and the vibration is beyond anything you have felt before. (I had an engine once on the ground operating at 70pct with serious vibrations and let me tell you that the WHOLE structure started to shake like I never felt before, ... , let alone be it at take-off power).

What do I want to tell with all this (rather long) :-) explanation: both or one engine delivering some thrust: at least two operating hydraulic systems = perfectly flyable aircraft! (even with one hydraulic system remaining an Airbus is well flyable but it gets a little harder)

So engines partially running? = generators are powered! = full electricity available. You don't need high engine power to have the generators running. (think about the fact that on the ground with engines at idle speed both engine driven generators deliver up to 100pct electricity for the aircraft.)

The problem was NO (not enough) engine power to keep on flying/climbing = unavoidable that the plane is going down (glide flight). Doing so in a controlled crash manner that is quite an achievement of everybody involved! First of all the Pilot flying (apparently captain), the first officer, and lets not forget the cabin crew for the safe evacuation .... !

Thanks as well to the Airbus engineers and designers ;)

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Desert Rat »

Airlinepilot wrote: x Airbus A320: Fly by wire aircraft = flight controls (ailerons, elevator, spoilers ....) are hydraulically operated but electronically controlled (except for the rudder and the elevator trim, which still have a direct cable connection).
Hi captain,

Yaw Control:Rudder is controled through the FAC's Computers(Yaw damping,turn coordination,rudder trim,rudder limit) but can,in case of elec. failure,be controlled with the rudder pedals trough the mechanical back-up

Pitch control: Elevators and Trimmable Horizontal stabilizer are controlled by the ELAC's or SEC's(in degraded mode )computer's, in case of elec. failure,if you still have green or yellow hydraulic system, then you can operate the THS using the pitch trim wheel.

So, everything is controlled by computers but pitch and yaw still have a mechanical backup...

Cheers,

;)

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Airlinepilot »

Airbus A320: Fly by wire aircraft = flight controls (ailerons, elevator, spoilers ....) are hydraulically operated but electronically controlled (except for the rudder and the elevator trim, which still have a direct cable connection).
He Desert Rat,

You're right, I just forgot to ad that the elevator trim and rudder trim have a mechanical back up (cable connection) but only used when no hydraulic power available!

cheers!

AP

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by EBAW_flyer »

You're right, I just forgot to ad that the elevator trim and rudder trim have a mechanical back up (cable connection) but only used when no hydraulic power available!
This is the Boeing-way. Mechanical backup in an Airbus is used when all FCCs (flight control computers) fail. You always need hydraulic power in the A320 (or you end up like the DC-10 in Sioux City or DHL A300 in Baghdad). But I'm sure you ment it like that ;) .

On the RAT or batteries only, the A320 still flies (without its normal FBW protection). I think the most challenging thing is to ditch the aircraft without loosing lives. It seems it was a perfect ditching!

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by sn26567 »

Another pilot, a Belgian one, managed to safely land his Boeing 737-800 after a bird strike that damaged both engines: captain Frédéric Colson flying with Ryanair and based in Hahn saved the life of 172 passengers on 10 November 2008 after the plane hit a cloud of birds shortly after take-off from Rome Ciampino. The pilot managed to land the aircraft like a glider on the Ciampino runway. There were 250 impacts of birds on the plane and it is estimated that more than 1000 went through the engines.

New York made the USAir pilot a hero, whereas few people ever heard of the Belgian pilot....

Captain Colson has been educated by Sabena. A story of his act was published in La Libre Belgique on 17 January
André
ex Sabena #26567

Desert Rat
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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Desert Rat »

EBAW_flyer wrote:
You're right, I just forgot to ad that the elevator trim and rudder trim have a mechanical back up (cable connection) but only used when no hydraulic power available!
This is the Boeing-way. Mechanical backup in an Airbus is used when all FCCs (flight control computers) fail. You always need hydraulic power in the A320 (or you end up like the DC-10 in Sioux City or DHL A300 in Baghdad). But I'm sure you ment it like that ;) .

On the RAT or batteries only, the A320 still flies (without its normal FBW protection). I think the most challenging thing is to ditch the aircraft without loosing lives. It seems it was a perfect ditching!
The mechanical back-up flight is usually given in the simulator to the pilots when they jump from the RH seat to the LH one....not easy to do, I heard... ;)

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Re: US Airways A320 ditches in Hudson River - pax and crew OK !

Post by Bralo20 »

sn26567 wrote:Another pilot, a Belgian one, managed to safely land his Boeing 737-800 after a bird strike that damaged both engines: captain Frédéric Colson flying with Ryanair and based in Hahn saved the life of 172 passengers on 10 November 2008 after the plane hit a cloud of birds shortly after take-off from Rome Ciampino. The pilot managed to land the aircraft like a glider on the Ciampino runway. There were 250 impacts of birds on the plane and it is estimated that more than 1000 went through the engines.

New York made the USAir pilot a hero, whereas few people ever heard of the Belgian pilot....

Captain Colson has been educated by Sabena. A story of his act was published in La Libre Belgique on 17 January
The difference = New York = United States = Big media, big PR... ;)

And let's not forget the ditching, was the plane able to glide to an airport I'm sure not that many news coverage would be present. Although it would be bigger news then here in Europe were everyone is a little modest ;) But that's US... Everything is bigger, especially the news :mrgreen:

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