CityJet to take over VLM and KLM LCY-AMS routes

[TCAS]

VLM and KLM Cityhopper services from London City to Amsterdam Schiphol are to be replaced by a smaller number of CityJet services from 5 January.

CityJet, a subsidiary of Air France, will use 95-seat Avro RJ-85 aircraft with new interiors to operate the flights, which will run eight times a day during the week, once on Saturdays and four times on Sundays. VLM currently runs 11 flights on weekdays, four on Sundays and one on Saturdays. KLM Cityhopper runs seven flights on weekdays, four on Sundays and one on Saturdays.

VLM and KLM, all part of the same parent group after this year’s takeover, will codeshare on the new services.

On 12 January, VLM will start a twice-weekday service from London City to Eindhoven, taking over services currently operated by CityJet.

Full article

Source: Business Travel World

[HighInTheSky]

95 seats on an RJ-85? That is a bit much i think...
SN has 97 seats on a RJ-100...

[TCAS]

95 seats on an RJ-85? That is a bit much i think...

Nope

See: CityJet British Aerospace Avro RJ85 configuration

[Buzz]

95 seats on an RJ-85? That is a bit much i think...
SN has 97 seats on a RJ-100...

I believe SN has a 5 seat in a row configuration, where Cityjet will probably have a 6 seat layout.Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[sdbelgium]

SN indeed has a 2-3 seating configuration on its ARJ's.

[euroflyer]

And Yes again many other airlines do have 3-3 in their Avro's. So has Lufthansa Cityline or Eurowings for example. But that is a desaster I hope SN will be allowed by LH to keep the 2-3 configuration.

[HighInTheSky]

95 seats on an RJ-85? That is a bit much i think...

Nope

See: CityJet British Aerospace Avro RJ85 configuration

Mea culpa! You were right, didn't think about a 3-3 configuration

[TCAS]

But that is a desaster

Sounds as "how many people can we get into a deux Chevaux"

[euroflyer]

But that is a desaster

Sounds as "how many people can we get into a deux Chevaux"

PLUS: Once they are in, make them stay there for 90 minutes . And do not forget the additional carry-on luggage if you have one pax more per row. Especially wonderful in those rows 6 to 10 or so where you have the very small overhead bins because of the wings ...

[Shanti]

Will the VLM fokker 50 disapear in the near future??

[Buzz]

Will the VLM fokker 50 disapear in the near future??

No, it's just because AF-KLM had to give 8 daily slots on LCY-AMS to a competitor if they wanted the take-over of VLM to go ahead. This way they still have the same number of seats on the route (more or less), and operate it more efficiently.
I read somewhere that Eastern will take over the other 8 flights...

[TCAS]

Will the VLM fokker 50 disapear in the near future??

Nope

I read somewhere that Eastern will take over the other 8 flights...

Correct

[Prevangor]

Note that earlier the European Commission approved the purchase of VLM without any conditions. It was the British Office of Fair Trade who ordered to install a competitor on that route.

Scroll down to the 3rd article:
http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=70476

In a parallel case, expect also the Conseil de la concurrence,
the Bundeskartellamt et al to scrutinise future monopoly threats. (However, in the past the Eurpean Commission was never as negligent towards Lufthansa as they are towards Air France domination. They commanded LH several times to give up slots).

[FLYAIR10]

VLM currently runs 11 flights on weekdays, four on Sundays and one on Saturdays. KLM Cityhopper runs seven flights on weekdays, four on Sundays and one on Saturdays.

This will free up some VLM F50's for other duties. Will these disappear from the fleet ,or will new routes be operated /launched by VLM (besides the newly announced LCY-Eindhoven?)
Maybe they could consider e.g. a Brussels-Leipzig route.. Just an idea..

[euroflyer]

Maybe they could consider e.g. a Brussels-Leipzig route.. Just an idea.

Hm, givenmy experience with LH so far, they would NEVER allow that to happen If VLM would open such a route, you can be sure to have LH/SN offering a flight within weeks as well and for the same pricing or less. So far they always have been quite strict here. It would be like LH opening an AMS to Lyon flight, AF/KLM would probably react here as well

[Established02]

> If VLM would open such a route, you can be sure to have LH/SN offering a flight
> within weeks as well and for the same pricing or less.

Can you possibly illustrate with some examples where -in the past- LH (or SN) have responded promptly and agressively to the moves of a competitor?

Thanks

[euroflyer]

> If VLM would open such a route, you can be sure to have LH/SN offering a flight
> within weeks as well and for the same pricing or less.

Can you possibly illustrate with some examples where -in the past- LH (or SN) have responded promptly and agressively to the moves of a competitor?

Thanks

Just to give you an idea of what I mean:

(1) See what happened to Deutsche BA, LH never gave them a chance by always offering direct competition for the same or lower price. Even if some of their network survived with Air Berlin, that is not really so impressive

(2) See what happened to eurowings, they once started direct competition to LH as well on domestic routes, very soon they were simply bought by LH

(3) Same happened with a small airline called "German Wings", must have been in the 80s or so already. LH bought them and today uses the name for a different business ...

(4) LH regrouped big part of their operations by putting a number of aircraft at fixed home bases (I think in Hamburg and Düsseldorf at least, not sure about other airports). Those 737 only fleets just fly from and to those airports. The whole move was to become as competitive regarding turn around time and maintenance as the LCCs which threatened to come to those airports. Do you see today any major presence of easyjet (except for Berlin-Schönefeld) in Germany? Has Ryanair many bases in Germany? No, only Frankfurt-Hahn is really worth mentioning. Quite surprising for the country with the biggest population in Europe, placed right in the heart of Europe with the biggest economy and people who do spend quite a lot on travelling. So far LH seems to have very clever played the role themselves by offeirng low fares (you can go with LH normally for 99 Euro anywhere in Europe if you book early enough on a real full service flight), plus they played around with eurowings, German Wings and Condor, all somehow owned or part-owned by them. It helped them to prevent others from entering the market.

(5) Just look like LH sits on the slots on the FRA-BRU route. With the summer timetable 08 they had 3 BRU-FRA departures between 17h35 and 19h10 from Monday to Friday. All three operated by rather small aircraft (146-300 or CRJ700 at 17h35, than 737-300 or -500 at 18h05 and than an A320 at 19h10). I guess they only keep all three flights to prevent those slots could be used by somebody else. It cannot make sense otherwise (and the 18h05 flight has been cancelled quite ofte, guess why!)

Well, just my thoughts, must not be true, but I have the feeling they are rather strict here ...

[Prevangor]

Euroflyer, you are just too emotional and you want to create an almighty monster out of Lufthansa. Here are the facts:

During the first half of 2008 the major airports in Germany had 91.7 million passangers, 25,7 million (= 28.1%) of them flew LCC.

http://www.adv.aero/download/presse/Low ... 2_2008.pdf

(.pdf file in German - sorry - with tables and charts, issued by the Airports Association).

During this period Lufthansa carried 28.4 million passengers, of them 22 millions within Europe.

I admit most would expect Lufthansa's market share to be bigger...

[Shanti]

Any news about new destinations for VLM in 2009?

[euroflyer]

Euroflyer, you are just too emotional and you want to create an almighty monster out of Lufthansa. Here are the facts:

During the first half of 2008 the major airports in Germany had 91.7 million passangers, 25,7 million (= 28.1%) of them flew LCC.

http://www.adv.aero/download/presse/Low ... 2_2008.pdf

(.pdf file in German - sorry - with tables and charts, issued by the Airports Association).

During this period Lufthansa carried 28.4 million passengers, of them 22 millions within Europe.

I admit most would expect Lufthansa's market share to be bigger...

I love to be emotional

Do you have comparable figures for, lets say the UK (BA), or Spain (IB), or Italy (AZ) ? I think only comparing those numbers will get any meaningful result. But you might be right