AirDC will fly under Belgian licence

[sn26567]

The new domestic Congolese airline AirDC will fly under a Belgian licence and the first flights could take off before year end, according to the Belgian press today.

The project, "that everybody believed was dead", has been relaunched on a healthier basis. The initial idea was to register AirDC, which belongs at 51% to Hewa Bora (Belgian group De Moerloose) and at 49% to Brussels Airlines, in Mauritius in order to avoid the problems of a registration in the Democratic Republic of Congo, currently on the European blacklist. This solution was not acceptable to the government of Congo, which preferred an airline flying under a Belgian licence. The Belgian authorities would be responsible of all the technical aspects (maintenance of the aircraft, pilots' licences, etc.). Brussels Airlines has accepted this option and will launch the certification and inspection process in Congo by Belgian inspectors.

Source: Belgian press, 2 October 2008

[jan_olieslagers]

Well, excuse me but I remain sceptical. I've still to see them actually start up and even if they do, the question is how long will they remain up and flying. Quite disturbing to me, that B.A. plays up to the Congolese government's slightest whim! They want a Belgian license, OK a Belgian license. They want red carpet in all planes, ok, red carpet. They want champagne... &C &C ...?

[TCAS_climb]

What a joke... How can the BCAA accept to oversee an airline operating in one of the worst countries in terms of safety ? This means that if ANYTHING happens with the AirDC planes the BCAA will take some, if not all, responsibility for it.

Ok, let me ask the question differently: how much did they get to accept such farce ?

[HighInTheSky]

I do hope for everybody involved that with a Belgian AOC this company finally will take off. Otherwise it was a terrible waste of money in the "Trim Our Costs"-times...

But i'm sceptical about this too...

[sn26567]

Ok, let me ask the question differently: how much did they get to accept such farce ?

I hope this is a joke and that you don't imply that BCAA has been corrupted!

[Desert Rat]

This means that if ANYTHING happens with the AirDC planes the BCAA will take some, if not all, responsibility for it.

From my understanding operator is responsible to cope with the rules or if anything happens.

CAA is there to monitor and audit to grant the AOC, if the AOC is granted it means that the rules(Operator Organization, Ops manual,safety procedure,insurance,etc... )during the AOC process have been followed by the operator ...

Also, from my point of view, it gives work to people in Belgium like CAA,Consultant, crew ant MX staff...

Congo needs a safe airline, so let's encourage them...

[TCAS_climb]

CAAs don't work for free. The cost of overseeing an airline based in Ostend, Brussels or Liege is not exactly the same, but the difference is negligible. Now there's a vast difference with the costs of overseeing an airline based in Central Africa flying on an African network. Standard oversight rates don't apply here, so how do you come up with a price for such service ?
Until now I didn't even know a single European CAA willing to issue an AOC to an airline based in a black-listed country.

CAA's responsibility is involved no matter what happens. If a plane crashes there's no immunity for the inspector(s) who signed the papers to the airline. If the investigation finds that he was complacent or that he didn't give himself the means to perform his oversight job properly, he will end up in court too. Not to mention the legal actions initiated by pax, employees, etc.

[Desert Rat]

Now there's a vast difference with the costs of overseeing an airline based in Central Africa flying on an African network. Standard oversight rates don't apply here, so how do you come up with a price for such service ?

I guess there will be CAA inspector's based in Congo to take care of the project...

[Desert Rat]

Until now I didn't even know a single European CAA willing to issue an AOC to an airline based in a black-listed country.

.

The French DGAC is working a lot out of France, in collaboration with other African countries....

[TCAS_climb]

...but AFAIK it's limited to the registration of the aircraft under special rules below the usual French standards and operated mainly overseas. It does not cover the initial approval and continuous oversight on the whole operation (including airworthiness, licensing, etc.), which is a totally different game.

[beaucaire]

I am still convinced the project is interesting and viable.
Central African regional market is a sustainable airline opportunity messed up historically by bad management,lousy infrastructure in maintenance,pilot-qualifications and marketing.
SN together with LH-Technics could change that quite fast and the media-impact would help to gain a critical mass very fast.
The role of Hewa Bora might change with the arrival of the new Belgian investor.
So when can we expect the first aircraft to take off from Kinshasa?

[Desert Rat]

SN together with LH-Technics

Why LH technics???

[beaucaire]

Because Sabena Technics have nothing to do with SN any longer but are a privately owned French company.
LH Technics -historically-have been involved in supporting LH-group metal all over the globe-so why should that be different in Africa?

[regi]

allow me to put the question differently:
why is it so difficult (or impossible) for a congolese company to become reliable ?

It are this kind of simple rethirical questions and remarks that made foreign affairs minister De Gucht impopular in the DRC.

Look, let us put this simple: labour cost is very low in the DRC. The streets are filled with unemployed PhD's.
The country wobbles on natural resources. The demand for air travel is large enough, domestically and internationaly.
So why does it go wrong again and again?
Corruption? We have that in every country. No excuse.
Money? Money was untill some months ago plenty available , based on their natural resources.
Mentality? Could it be that they don't accept international standards ( as long as it flies, it flies, so why change the parts before they brake ) ? A wrongly placed stubborness, misplaced proud, a psychological factor of denying the truth by accusing others .

[steeven205]

It is strange how Brussels Airlines is always trying to pass trhough the wall in spite of thinking gloabbaly. As b.a wants to do an airline in Africa, if it is not possible in Congo in respecting ethics and rules, they should better look for another country. So now b.a would like to reinvent the process of airline certification. Do ou think that the next sentence does have any sense ?
"AIRdc is a congolese airline holding a belgian AOC", if AirDc holds a belgian licence it is a belgian airline.
I hope the intention of AirDc is to fly only into RDC due to their agreement with congolese authority, because if they plan to fly to other african countries, they should be aware that they could not benefits of the Yamoussoukro open sky agreement, and they should also get the agreement of civil aviation authority of other counries.

Do you think that an airline certified in USA or CANADA could be allowed to operate flights between european countries?

But as it concerns Africa, b.a thinks that it would be possible there, certainly because they think that there is no regulations in Africa, it is simply it is a scorn for africans and they will be surprised.

Nevertheless, they already invest more than 1 million euro in that project, and it is only the beginning, with only one thing sure, nothing good will happen if the keep on thinking like that.

in spanish we call that "CHINRINGUITA" or in french carabistouilles ou bricolage.

[jan_olieslagers]

as long as it flies, it flies, so why change the parts before they brake

Mind you, brakes parts should certainly not be replaced before braking - there would be no end to repairs! But then again, brakes are not used for flying, that's obvious.

That said, I quite agree with the rest of your message.

[TCAS_climb]

Regi, frankly and amicably, the best way to answer your question would be to buy a ticket to Kinshasa and spend two or three weeks over there.

Labour costs: very low indeed, but what kind of "quality job" do you expect in a country after almost a decade of war and where the population was basically left on its own. Good lucky trying to find somebody raised in Kinshasa who can read and write correctly in French, except for the small elite.

Unemployed PhDs: SAY AGAIN ??? From the mouth of the director of one of Kinshasa's greatest hospitals (who's also a doctor): doctors graduating in Congo today have a level equivalent to a nurse in her first year at university in Europe. Sorry guys, but the state administration and the whole education system fell down years ago. There's no decent budget, no training aids, nothing.

Natural resources and demand for air travel: no doubt about that !

Corruption: you have no idea how bad it screws up even the best and most charitable ideas and projects. Not to mention rogue soldiers who point the gun at your face to get what the state can't give them.

Money: well, they give away a lot of their resources in exchange for roads, hospitals, etc. built by the Chinese and they have debts. They're not in such good shape.

Mentality: there's something odd and saddening about the people there. They can't project themselves into the future. I can't explain why, maybe because life is so harsh, but it frequently astounds you.

[FlyA330]

I totally agree with TCAS_climb.

I went more than 3 years on a regular basis to Kin and had many friends over there. Nothing works in the DRC. Corruption is everywhere. Quality of work is bad and they don't have the cutlture of maintaining things. And most important, security?? Forget it !! I had a Ak-47 pointed to my head by a "nice" police officer who wanted some money !!
PhDs, driver licences, International boat licenses,...??? You can simply buy the official ones !!
And Brussels Airlines wants to do business over there??? I simply don't get it.

[regi]

I did have my ow ideas which I kept for myself, but I am surprised that the latest replies were allowed to be so outspoken.

I am not surprised that SNBA wants to invest more in this route to Kinshasha or even other destinations in the DRC.
What does SNBA care if your taxi to/from the airport is stopped at gunpoint for some kickbacks ?
Why would they worry about corruption? As long as their own airport handling equipment is not confiscated - remember that one? - or that an Airbus is blocked to get their own DRC wreckage released from Zaventem ( as with the Silverback - Ruanda saga ), no problemo.

I would not be surprised that they have further plans, maybe even going back into the hotel business, to supply a complete safe package for the western business traveller. No hasstle at arrivals, no "lost" luggage, privatised and protected transport, own accomodation,...
Meaning: > 1500 euro for an economy ticket.

Do you think that the Chinese are better treated than the white folks before at Kin' ? Do you think that they don't have to fill the pockets of all those crooks as we have done since Mobutu?
How long wil they endure it?
How many Chinese would have been there once and have concluded " never again" ?
Their state agency sends them over to suck the oil out of the soil at the coast, or to get the copper from Kolwezi. But do you think they will be so much better and more efficient than the westerners before?
Look what happened to their oil workers in Sudan.
And China does not have the military infrastructure and/or cooperation with other nations to withdraw its citizens quickly out of the war zones as the Belgians did together with the French.
The Chinese have been to Zaire before, see the national stadium ( and parliament building as well if i am not wrong) Don't say that was to get influence during the cold war. It was for exactly the same reason as now: the natural resources.
What comes on top of it now is that China creates also its own markets to dump cheap products, outdated towards western standards, but OK for the DRC.
I see only 3 big differences with the old days:

• Chinese want to gamble in their hotels
  Chinese want to have chinese food
  Chinese are not so fond of the charms of black females as the colons were.

[sn26567]

Meanwhile, discussions are progressing. Michel Meyfroidt, one of the two CEOs of Brussels Airlines, had a meeting with DRC Senate Chairman Léon Kengo wa Dondo in Kinshasa two days ago (Thursday, 9 October). They discussed domestic air transport in the Democratic Republic of Congo and also air links between Congo and Europe. Kengo is a respected politician, well known in Belgium and his influence could help unlock the long process initiated by Brussels Airlines and Hewa Bora Airways.