The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

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Air Key West
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Air Key West »

OK, I accept your arguments. Both you and BrightCedars are probably right and I was probably too pessimistic. I suppose we will not see any changes until the beginning of next year, but that's normal (only four months to go). Now, I have a secret wish (for which I am sure some people here are going to flame me) it is that LH, when they own the whole airline, would rename Brussels Airlines into "Sabena by Lufthansa". I still hear so many people around me say : I flew with sabena (when it was b.air) because 1) of the SN flight number, and 2) because sabena is still in people's mind (with good or bad memories depending on what type of experience you had with sabena ; mine was not always but usually ok). And if LH wants to develop routes to Africa, on the Black Continent Sabena would still be a strong brand. But I know it's not going to happen and I can already hear the anti-sabena crowd shout : such a bloody experience never again ! To these people I would say : it's going to be Sabena BY LUFTHANSA.
In favor of quality air travel.

brussels airlines
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by brussels airlines »

First changes for passengers will be seen around March-April 2009. The Privilege program is going to be integrated in Miles&More, this will be one of the first changes.

The Sabena-name will definitly not return. It would be very stupid to rebrand the Belgian airline again after a complete make-over two years ago.

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Buzz
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Buzz »

Air Key West wrote:it's going to be Sabena BY LUFTHANSA.
Thomas Cook by Condor
Thomson Airlines by Brittania
...
All these 'By' Airlines are simply a way to introduce a totally new brand without to much fuss... The old brand is sent into the historybooks after a few years mostly (Condor has been the exception).
I could see (in the future) a transition to 'Brussels Airlines - a Lufthansa Group member', and in the far future the group airlines might be merged into Lufhansa. There simply is no need or businesscase for the reintroduction of the Sabena-brand, it is too emotional in Belgium, and has (except for Africa), no commercial value anymore IMHO.

b-west

Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by b-west »

Ah, the Sabena name is still very much alive. Only yesterday, I had to ask a transitpassenger (British or American, can't remember) which airline he was flying, and he immediately said Sabena...

But I do sadly believe that we won't see the Sabena name grace any planes anymore.

kiwiandrew
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by kiwiandrew »

b-west wrote:Ah, the Sabena name is still very much alive. Only yesterday, I had to ask a transitpassenger (British or American, can't remember) which airline he was flying, and he immediately said Sabena...

But I do sadly believe that we won't see the Sabena name grace any planes anymore.

not trying to pour any more fuel onto the linguistic bonfire , but since Sabena was originally an acronym in French ( ' Société Anonyme Belge d'Exploitation de la Navigation Aérienne ' if I am not mistaken *) could you actually get away with reviving a Francophone name in the current environment in Belgium - or was it just seen as a name without retaining any linguistic assocations



*before anyone tells me that it was actually an acronym in English , yes , I have also heard the "Such A Bad Experience , Never Again" explanation

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an-148
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by an-148 »

kiwiandrew wrote:since Sabena was originally an acronym in French ( ' Société Anonyme Belge d'Exploitation de la Navigation Aérienne ' if I am not mistaken *) could you actually get away with reviving a Francophone name in the current environment in Belgium
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't believe my eyes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Airbus330lover
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Airbus330lover »

Just my 2 cents :
The brand name is stronger than the original signification.
How many people knows the origin of the SABENA name?
The original is dead, the brand name (or trademark)can be reused.
Same for GB (Grand bazar... d'Anvers in the origin) is only a trademark from Carrefour
Same for IBM.... (International Busines Machines)

b-west

Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by b-west »

That's what I think as well. People have long forgotten the meaning of Sabena, and just think of it as a word. And, believe me or not, apart from those few radicals (who sadly get way too much attention), most of the people in the north of Belgium don't really care. Don't let the media, on the lookout for sensation, cloud your mind ;)


I suppose that for ex Sabena employees, it might be a bit hard to see the name fly around again, but from a commercial point of view, it would make sense I think. It's also a perfect name for an international airline, pronouncable in almost any language without too much trouble.


Anyway, this is all a bit off topic ;)

summersso
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by summersso »

Airbus330lover wrote:The brand name is stronger than the original signification.
But the brand name is tainted with "failed airline", "poor service".

Sabena might have been great back in the 1980's guys, but we've moved on. Belgium should look the future and seek to build a new, successful brand. Although I realise the situation in Switzerland is different, Swiss have managed to build a quality brand from the ashes of Swissair - this should be the shining example.

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Buzz
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Buzz »

summersso wrote:Sabena might have been great back in the 1980's guys, but we've moved on. Belgium should look the future and seek to build a new, successful brand. Although I realise the situation in Switzerland is different, Swiss have managed to build a quality brand from the ashes of Swissair - this should be the shining example.
Actually, Swiss was a lossmaking airline untill LH stepped in.
Zurich does not have the problem of being pinned between 4 major European airport, thus can sustain more long haul flights. SN simply does not have the possibility to do as LX did unfortunatly...

NCB

Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by NCB »

Actually, Swiss was a lossmaking airline untill LH stepped in.
Zurich does not have the problem of being pinned between 4 major European airport, thus can sustain more long haul flights. SN simply does not have the possibility to do as LX did unfortunatly...
I think that it depends on the markets that are targetted.
Transatlantic to North America, I agree.
South to Africa, I disagree.

KLM and all Nordic airlines do not fly much to Africa so SN can get a good portion of the Northern European market for themselves.
Air France has high prices so SN can definitely steal France pax if they can schedule feeding. Marseille, Lyon, Toulouse come to mind as well. Since SN will codeshare with STAR, it'll make sense to feed in and out of CDG (ANA, Singapore, etc...) so they might be able to reinstate regular flying to CDG.
Last edited by NCB on 25 Sep 2008, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

Bralo20
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Bralo20 »

summersso wrote:
Airbus330lover wrote:The brand name is stronger than the original signification.
But the brand name is tainted with "failed airline", "poor service".

Sabena might have been great back in the 1980's guys, but we've moved on. Belgium should look the future and seek to build a new, successful brand. Although I realise the situation in Switzerland is different, Swiss have managed to build a quality brand from the ashes of Swissair - this should be the shining example.
Not completely... The SABENA brand is still a very strong brand until this date. A lot of people are still talking about SABENA when they take about Brussels Airlines... SABENA is (and will remain so) a part of Belgian's aviation history. SABENA was a name connected to a Belgian flag carrier with some strong positives. It was a high quality airline with a very high name in the world. Not only in Africa but also in Europe and America. Although gone for 7 years now the name remains in everybody's memory, even in those who never flied with the carier. Good and bad news has connected to the name but the good has still the strong hand... Untill SABENA was sold to Swissair it was a relative good to very good carrier with a strong service and nice aircrafts. It became worse after Swissair bought the beautifull airline from the Belgian government. So indeed, during the nineties the SABENA brand was not to good however it doesn't weigh agains the history of the airline.

Actually I would like to see the results of a poll about the SABENA brand.

Possible polls:

Wich is the airline you remember as the Belgian flag carrier:

A) Brussels Airlines
B) SABENA
C) SN Brussels Airlines
D) EBA
E) Virgin Express

Or maybe:

Wich name you think a rebranded national carrier should receive:

A) Brussels Airlines (no change)
B) SABENA (back to the famous brand)
C) Brussels Airlines by Lufthansa
D) Lufthansa
E) Something Else

:mrgreen:

Bralo20
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Bralo20 »

Most likely it will remain Brussels Airlines for some years but after that nobody can tell unfortunately...

However it do not think the SABENA brand will be re-introduced, how unfortunate it is...

summersso
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by summersso »

Buzz wrote:
summersso wrote:Sabena might have been great back in the 1980's guys, but we've moved on. Belgium should look the future and seek to build a new, successful brand. Although I realise the situation in Switzerland is different, Swiss have managed to build a quality brand from the ashes of Swissair - this should be the shining example.
Actually, Swiss was a lossmaking airline untill LH stepped in.
Zurich does not have the problem of being pinned between 4 major European airport, thus can sustain more long haul flights. SN simply does not have the possibility to do as LX did unfortunatly...

Just a few quick comments:
- You can still be loss-making yet able to build a quality brand. Passengers don't study corporate figures, they're more interested in image, quality of service etc
- LH DID step in and save Swiss, fine, helped them overcome financial difficulties, and develop a brand synonymous with quality - now they can help Brussels Airlines do the same.
- Instead of thinking "we're trapped between four large airports", think positively:
a) a HUGE potential catchment area (my parents live in Den Haag and sometimes seriously consider coming down to Brussels to fly for less!)
b) an opportunity to attract connecting passengers wishing to avoid the stress and hassle of FRA/AMS/CDG
- I must agree that *A could develop their African network and Brussels Airlines will be able to codeshare and cooperate with alot of Nordic/CEE airlines like SAS, LOT, airBaltic as well as BMI!

On the rebranding issue - BOAC and Imperial Airways had majestic, excellent reputations but I've never heard suggestions that British Airways should revert to their old names.

Some crude mathematics now (excuse me), but... if Sabena's reputation was sullied in the '90s and best in the 80's, then assuming travellers back then were rarely younger than 20, they were born in 1960, so average age now is 50. For the last 15 years they've not seen the name Sabena, or just remember it failing (the most spectacular event in its history?). 60% of the population, and increasing, probably therefore have either no or a negative image of the Sabena brand.

Brussels Airlines (although I'm not the biggest fan of the name) has the potential to develop a quality brand. Although perhaps LH could employ some decent consultants to replace that ugly "b" logo which looks like it was drawn by a six year old with crayons...

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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by sn-remember »

There simply is no need or businesscase for the reintroduction of the Sabena-brand, it is too emotional in Belgium, and has (except for Africa), no commercial value anymore IMHO.
But Africa IS the major market for SN
Ah, the Sabena name is still very much alive
Agreed
The brand name is stronger than the original signification.
True
Sabena: SAd BElgian NAtion :lol:
Actually, Swiss was a lossmaking airline untill LH stepped in
The Swiss made the hard job of putting the revisited flag carrier on the rails. They redefined what a profitable and ambtious airline should look like. LH just boosted the whole process (and made dreams come true?)
Zurich does not have the problem of being pinned between 4 major European airport, thus can sustain more long haul flights
An old tune...
I just can say that same as BRU is stuck between AMS and PAR, Philadelphia is also stuck between NYork and Washington (plus other major hubs) and still a decent airport regarding l/hauls. Why ? Because an ambitious airline developed services there (same applies for Cincinati or Detroit)
And Zurich is also competing with neighbours like Munich, Vienna and Milan.
KLM and all Nordic airlines do not fly much to Africa so SN can get a good portion of the Northern European market for themselves.
SK doe not serve Africa at all.
KL is strong on some key african destinations (6 daily departures including 1.5 to SAfrica) but it's true that SN has vocation to serve more places.
Meanwhile SN have only 3 daily departures

Let me add how happy I feel with SN merging with LH and joining *A.
Very fortunate indeed :!:

Concerning JET ops in BRU I believe they can continue and even develop a lot more in the future.
Who knows if/when 9W and AI will merge ;)

And SN to all knowledgeable belgians, africans and americans means Sabena.(created in 1923 remember !)
Really hope the new team can restart the brand
Long live SABENA !

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an-148
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by an-148 »

the most clever thing that LH could make in matters of marketing would be to buy back the "SABENA" brand to the curators and rename the company with a very prestigious name! (and it would be a relatively cheap marketing expense in regard to the gained image: SNBA or Brussels airlines, in comparison, is synonym for semi-LC company: SABENA is connected with prestige!)
this brand is synonym of quality and service in the whole world

NCB

Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by NCB »

Or they could merge Brussels Airlines and Sabena into... SABRENA ;)

I would also love to see the Sabena name revive.
Somehow, I think that if LH establishes this brand name it could work, as it would be considered as a new Sabena, one that has been created from scratch. That would have less emotional impact.

One thing though, is sure.
Sabena, SN Brussels Airlines nad Brussels Airlines have showed to us the finest liveries of this world. I hope that this tradition will be kept in the future.
an opportunity to attract connecting passengers wishing to avoid the stress and hassle of FRA/AMS/CDG
That's a good argument. CDG and LHR are starting to get seriously bad reputations for transit.

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Conti764
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Conti764 »

NCB wrote:Since SN will codeshare with STAR, it'll make sense to feed in and out of CDG (ANA, Singapore, etc...) so they might be able to reinstate regular flying to CDG.
This really is a lack of self confidence. In stead of raising traffic between CDG and BRU to attract more pax of the companies you mention, why not attract these carriers to BRU directly? Maybe they can suspend one the flights to Italy or stretch in to BRU (773) or even fly direct (772)?

The same for ANA from Japan. NAR was one of the few money making long haul flights of SN.

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Conti764
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by Conti764 »

an-148 wrote:the most clever thing that LH could make in matters of marketing would be to buy back the "SABENA" brand to the curators and rename the company with a very prestigious name! (and it would be a relatively cheap marketing expense in regard to the gained image: SNBA or Brussels airlines, in comparison, is synonym for semi-LC company: SABENA is connected with prestige!)
this brand is synonym of quality and service in the whole world
For me, Brussels Airlines looks like a low cost carrier, not trough the name, but the look of their planes. The red dotted B on the tail is by far not as prestigious as the S-tail was back in her days.

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an-148
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Re: The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

Post by an-148 »

Conti764 wrote:
an-148 wrote:the most clever thing that LH could make in matters of marketing would be to buy back the "SABENA" brand to the curators and rename the company with a very prestigious name! (and it would be a relatively cheap marketing expense in regard to the gained image: SNBA or Brussels airlines, in comparison, is synonym for semi-LC company: SABENA is connected with prestige!)
this brand is synonym of quality and service in the whole world
For me, Brussels Airlines looks like a low cost carrier, not trough the name, but the look of their planes. The red dotted B on the tail is by far not as prestigious as the S-tail was back in her days.
+1 ;)

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