What has happened to Qantas

[Duigan]

The latest delay is only the latest in a long line of problems that have beset the airline.

Qantas has been forced to delay a Sydney-bound flight from London by more than 15 hours because of a problem with the plane's rudder.

The airline today confirmed that flight QF2, scheduled to leave London's Heathrow airport at 7.15am (AEST) today, had been grounded following a "technical issue".

Further information: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/ ... 38494.html

[bits44]

Did Qantas not outsource the majority of it's maintenance and overhaul to others?


It seems all these incidents have occurred since that was put in place.

[ElcoB]

August 18, 2008
THE run of bad luck afflicting Qantas took a graphic turn last night when a fully loaded 767 flying from Sydney to Perth was forced to stage an unplanned landing in Adelaide so its toilets could be emptied.

Flight staff on QF571 told passengers that Sydney ground staff had forgotten to empty the toilets on the 767-300, which originated in Honolulu.

Unscheduled toilet stop adds to Qantas woes

[Air Key West]

My guess is that saving on maintenance (by outsourcing to countries with low wages - and maybe less skilled workers, or perfectly skilled workers but not in sufficient numbers) and saving on cleaning aircraft because of too few cleaners to do the job in too little time gets an airline (like Qantas) in trouble which is eventually going to cost them more than they have saved.
When will (all) airlines go back to being reasonable by having enough well qualified workers with decent pay to get them motivated to do their jobs well ?
After Qantas, who's going to be next ?

[bits44]

Duigan,

you should try and post the link to the article rather than the whole piece verbatim or acknowledge the source, you are probably infringing on copyrighted material.

[sn26567]

you should try and post the link to the article rather than the whole piece verbatim or acknowledge the source, you are probably infringing on copyrighted material.

With Google you find the original article right away: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/ ... 38494.html

I have changed the post accordingly.

[Conti764]

When will (all) airlines go back to being reasonable by having enough well qualified workers with decent pay to get them motivated to do their jobs well ?

When flying is only for the upper class again?

[Air Key West]

No, but if travelling means exploiting workers, I don't feel comfortable. Everybody has to adapt his means of travel according to what he earns otherwise everybody would, for instance, drive in a Mercedes, a BMW, a Jaguar and not in a VW Polo. Although I know people who are prepared to pay for their expensive car, but start to grumble, or even say it is a disgrace that their ticket to BCN is more than 49 euros. But to come back to your point, I feel uncomfortable when my travelling means that other people have to work under very hard conditions for a very low salary. But everybody does't share my ethics.

[bxleu]

'Qantas never crashed': airline's brand under threat
More at http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/qantas- ... 94617.html

[Duigan]

Thanks for that I have not posted very often so still learning
I have flown Qantas myself many times and up until about 3 years ago found them to be absolutely brilliant with both ground and in flight service
Lately I have found ,Broken Seats, Toilets that don't work,Staff that are too interested in chatting up the celebrities,and flights not to time.
On the latest flight they ran out of meals before everyone had been served, funny thing was there still seemed to be a meal for the cabin staff.
It does not seem to be higher fuel prices but rather a lack of commitment to getting the basics right

[Air Key West]

My interpretation of the situation, in general, in the airline industry today (with a few exceptions) is that because of the fare wars, fares are indeed dropping, but service is going down, too, inevitably. Airlines are saving everywhere (even on maintenance ?) to be able to offer cheaper fares than the competition. Most travelers are beging for cheap fares, but you cannot expect the same service to continue if fares drop or even if they remain the same (no increase).
As to the attitude of f/a, these people, when they have not had to concede pay cuts, often haven't received a decent pay increase and generally their working conditions have deteriorated. Less f/a to do the same job = increase of work load for a lower purchasing power. One cannot expected them to continue to be as enthusiastic and committes as when they earned a decent living under good working conditions.
In the end, you get what you pay for (or are prepared to pay for). Something of which the price decreases or does not increase in time, cannot remain of the same quality (unlike what some people/airlines would like us to believe).

[LX-LGX]

...Most travelers are begging for cheap fares, but you cannot expect the same service to continue if fares drop or even if they remain the same (no increase). ...In the end, you get what you pay for (or are prepared to pay for). Something of which the price decreases or does not increase in time, cannot remain of the same quality (unlike what some people/airlines would like us to believe).

You really should try to understand more about pax behaviour. They are (we are) not begging for cheap fares. We look around, and we book if we think the price is OK. We don't tell Brussels Airlines that 49 euro is too expensive, and that we will take it at 40 euro. No: we'll take it or we'll leave it. If we have to fly long haul, we look what Connections and Joker and brokers like ATP are offering, and we then know what it will be. If we find a tariff from 500 euro ex-BRU and 450 euro ex-AMS, we'll take the ex-BRU. If ex-AMS would be 400, we'll think about it. If ex-AMS would be 350, we'll take it. Airlines decide the fare. But they know that we know that internet exists ansd they know that we know that there are LCC's: that's why fares come down.

But most of all: contrary to what you suggest, we do accept that we cannot get a welcome drink, a hot meal, free drinks and a free newspaper for a 49 euro ticket. But then, we don't ask much you know: actually, if we don't have to queue too long, if we arrive on time at destination and if the f/a are friendly and polite (which they all do), we're happy.

No, but if travelling means exploiting workers, I don't feel comfortable... Everybody has to adapt his means of travel according to what he earns otherwise everybody would, for instance, drive in a Mercedes, a BMW, a Jaguar and not in a VW Polo. Although I know people who are prepared to pay for their expensive car, but start to grumble, or even say it is a disgrace that their ticket to BCN is more than 49 euros. But to come back to your point, I feel uncomfortable when my travelling means that other people have to work under very hard conditions for a very low salary. But everybody does't share my ethics.

So you are one of the few with ethics? Excuse me! In Aviation 2008, Europe, States and Australasia, nobody has to work under "very hard conditions for a very low salary". There are legal minimum wages, and aviation is paying much more then this - specially for those doing the physically hard jobs.

[LX-LGX]

I have flown Qantas myself many times and up until about 3 years ago found them to be absolutely brilliant with both ground and in flight service. Lately I have found ,Broken Seats, Toilets that don't work,Staff that are too interested in chatting up the celebrities,and flights not to time. On the latest flight they ran out of meals before everyone had been served, funny thing was there still seemed to be a meal for the cabin staff. It does not seem to be higher fuel prices but rather a lack of commitment to getting the basics right

Well, you have different experiences from Qantas I have. "Staff that are too interested in chatting up the celebrities": yeh, there are about ten of them on each flight, isn't it? "Broken seats": so you had to sit several times on a seat that was broken? Instead of complaining here, you should have said it to the crew: perhaps you would have received an upgrading. But surely: if the crew knew the seat was broken, there was a safety issue, and wouldn't allow you to stay there. What may have happened is that there was a malfunction, ex. arm rest, which the previous passenger hasn't mentionned to the crew.

My guess is that saving on maintenance (by outsourcing to countries with low wages - and maybe less skilled workers, or perfectly skilled workers but not in sufficient numbers) and saving on cleaning aircraft because of too few cleaners to do the job in too little time gets an airline (like Qantas) in trouble which is eventually going to cost them more than they have saved.

When will (all) airlines go back to being reasonable by having enough well qualified workers with decent pay to get them motivated to do their jobs well ?

Qantas planes are clean, very clean when you board them. But after a long haul flight, it's indeed a mess. Trust you are not mentionning the moment you deboard the plane?

About the outsourcing: they have indeed outsourced maintenance checks, simply because Australia has a very high cost of living. Spare parts cost the same in Malaysia, but maintenance costs aren't. The Big Mac Index for Australia is 3,36 USD - compared to only 1,70 USD for Malaysia. If you phone KLM's helpdesk, you are connected to a Dutch native speaking operator in ... Cape Town. Because it's cheaper for KLM to pay staff in South Africa then in Amsterdam. The reason? Cost of living in SA is much cheaper, even if KLM pays them better then an average SA salary. Index from SA on Big Mac: 2,24 USD, against 2,95 USD for The Netherlands (and they're the cheapest in Western Europe). Same applies for the manually billing of the IATA-tickets, which is (was) done in India for most airlines. Through guys who were extremely well paid - compared to their fellow citizens.

The latest delay is only the latest in a long line of problems that have beset the airline.

What you call "a long line of problems" is the one incident with the oxygen bottle at a 747, followed by a few manor incidents that happen every day. Yesterday (Sat 23/08), Virgin Atlantic had a 747 to Barbados who had to return to Gatwick for a technical, EasyJet had a serious emergency landing in Nice (one stewardess had to be taken to hospital with breathing problems, apparently after smoke in the cabin and/or cockpit) and United had to return a 767 to San Francisco with an engine failure. The Swiss A321 emergency landing and evacuation through slides in Geneva yesterday doesn't caunt, as it was a bomb alert.

Qantas is doing quite well, thank you:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... djcfCMUpsc

[flightlover]

... nobody has to work under "very hard conditions for a very low salary". There are legal minimum wages, and aviation is paying much more then this - specially for those doing the physically hard jobs.

Seems to me you haven't worked in the industrie before. At AP for example we get paid minimum wages (barema's) that are in place for the industrie. The only reason the pay is a bit higher then in other industries is because there are premiums for the bad houres we have to work. Just to say, you can work in less demanding conditions and still earn the same or even better in the transportation buisnes doing about the same job.

[Duigan]

The problem of maintainance issues seems to be continuing

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/absolut ... 85923.html

[fc82091]

... nobody has to work under "very hard conditions for a very low salary". There are legal minimum wages, and aviation is paying much more then this - specially for those doing the physically hard jobs.

Seems to me you haven't worked in the industrie before. At AP for example we get paid minimum wages (barema's) that are in place for the industrie. The only reason the pay is a bit higher then in other industries is because there are premiums for the bad houres we have to work. Just to say, you can work in less demanding conditions and still earn the same or even better in the transportation buisnes doing about the same job.

Loan at FC and AP are almost equal and start between 11€ and 12€/hour without the extra's
Its not a royal loan but compared to horeca or truck unloading its very well payed and they have to work atleast as hard. I wouldn't mind myself to get payed a little more though

[RC20]

I have seen this in the past. An airline suffers a dramatic incident (maybe two ) and then the press focuses on the airline and reports every bobble they experience.

Has anyone compared Qantas record with all the problems other airliner suffer?

I am not contending they do not have issues (I simply do not know) but I do know that all airlines on a regular basis have things go wrong. As long as they are minor and not issues that actually affect safety, its part of a mechanical system.

[Duigan]

The previous writer has a point but Qantas does seem to have a lot more ongoing problems than other Airlines
I have to wonder if it has anything to do with managements decision to outsource a lot of work


http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qanta ... 09294.html