Alitalia: rebirth after near bankruptcy

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LX-LGX
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Alitalia: rebirth after near bankruptcy

Post by LX-LGX » 09 Aug 2008, 14:37

On Thursday, Berlusconi told RAI that the rescue plan is ready. Quotes from Bloomberg.com:

"... We are in talks with a big foreign airline for an international alliance..."

"... We have the industrial plan, the investors and the capital..."

Bloomberg also makes a first guess for the new CEO: Enrico Bondi, who turned Parmalat (Italy's biggest dairy company) back on track. Seems Bondi had a meeting with government advisors on Thursday.

Sources:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 0r1OorqMxA
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... _WRTH2nDq4

(the older ones here will remember Parmalat as personal sponsor from former F1 World Champion Niki Lauda - who later founded Lauda Air)
Last edited by sn26567 on 31 Dec 2008, 09:55, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title changed in view of recent developments

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by Airbus330lover » 09 Aug 2008, 14:37

Various sources says that AZ will close on 31/8

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Gate-A1
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by Gate-A1 » 09 Aug 2008, 15:34

Other sources says Lufthansa would be the buyer. (for the symbolic EUR?)

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SilverJET
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by SilverJET » 09 Aug 2008, 16:30

I've read an article on the website of a Belgian financial newspaper "De Tijd", Lufthansa denies negociations with Alitalia.

source http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 33-431.art
sorry this is in dutch
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beaucaire
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by beaucaire » 09 Aug 2008, 18:29

Most likely Lufthansa does not negotiate with Alitalia directly but with Banco Sanpaolo.. ;)

Air Key West
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by Air Key West » 10 Aug 2008, 13:41

In my opinion, a fairly good summary in English of recent developments and outlooks :
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/08/ ... =newsalert
In favor of quality air travel.

regi
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by regi » 10 Aug 2008, 17:56

There is no future for Alitalia. It wil end , simply.
What might happen is that it will be bought, and that the planes keep flying some months under the Alitalia sign untill the piant job will be done. To soften the italian feelings they probably gonna name the planes "star alliance" or "one world " or something similar.
It is all noce to read that Lufthansa would buy Alitalia. But the Germans are very afraid and aware about the "human resurce" factor. Also the cost of personell is the same kind of european burden as for Lufthansa.
Imagine an outsider steps in e.g. Emirates or Jet Airways. And they employ the personell according the foreign rules.

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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by euroflyer » 12 Aug 2008, 16:08

Honestly I cannot see LH bying AZ. They are probably very much interested in the Italian market, but they will not buy all the problems connected to AZ. If the Italian government will first sort out all those problems (like labour relations, outsourcing, debt, etc.) than LH might be tempted afterwards, but even than I am not sure. They are more likely to take AUA on board soon which is a smaller but much easier step.

Anyway, we will see.
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galaxy
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by galaxy » 12 Aug 2008, 18:10

Prosecutors launch Alitalia investigation.

Alitalia, Italy’s troubled national airline, faces new challenges today, after an announcement on the part of Italian prosecutors that they will look into allegations claiming that tax payers had to foot a massive €5 billion bill in order to save the carrier from looming bankruptcy. These government payments have been going on for the past decade and consumer lobby groups in Italy have, for some time, been highly critical of Italian efforts to save the carrier, using large sums of public money. CODACONS, one of Italy’s largest consumer groups, has lodged a complaint about government subsidies and loans. The organization is especially critical of a recent €300 million emergency loan that authorities provided Alitalia with this past April, in order to spare it from all but certain bankruptcy.

The European Commission (EC) seems to agree with the consumer group in its assessment of the emergency loan, noting that this form of state aid to a national airline was not permitted under European Union rules. The EC also indicated that the loan gave Alitalia an “economic advantage it would not have had under normal market conditions.” British Airways has now also joined the growing chorus of major airlines in condemning the emergency loan.

CODACONS, however, is just as acutely concerned about this loan, as it is about reported payouts to Alitalia executives. Former chairman Maurizio Prato, for example, allegedly received over €326,000 in five months, according to the consumer group’s calculations.
What will Berlusconi say now ? Are Italian tax payers idiots ?
:?:
http://news.carrentals.co.uk/prosecutor ... 23272.html

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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by Air Key West » 12 Aug 2008, 18:43

Berlusconi's announcement to Rai on 07 AUG may just be another bluff from the "cavaliere". We'll know more at the end of this month. Except for Alitalia workers, it would probably be in everybody's interest to let AZ die. Other airlines will pick up the broken pieces and fill the void without having to make a risky investment.
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by AF332 » 29 Aug 2008, 19:36

Alitalia board OKs bankruptcy protection

URL: http://www.reuters.com/article/innovati ... 3620080829

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euroflyer
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by euroflyer » 29 Aug 2008, 21:18

AF332 wrote:Alitalia board OKs bankruptcy protection

URL: http://www.reuters.com/article/innovati ... 3620080829
So that will be the scenaria discussed for some days now in the media: AZ will close, a "newco" will take over as many planes as they need and as many employees as they need with new collective agreements and continue to fly (under a new name?). And probably that "newco" will merge at the same time with AirOne to get rid of this nasty competition :roll: Flight prices in Italy on domestic routes will increase and the "newco" might be better off than AZ was. Question is: who will be the shareholders of "newco"? Only Italians or will AF/KLM take some percentage points? I guess LH will not go for AZ, but I might be worng (but I feel with SN; BMI and maybe AUA they have really enough to swallow).
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by TCAS_climb » 29 Aug 2008, 21:52

OK so if I get it right that's almost a copy-paste from the Olympic Airways/Airlines saga a few years ago ? Tax payers and pax can shove it deep up the kazoo while the politics bypass the laws to save the managers' butt.

Really makes me want to puke.

Sikiri
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by Sikiri » 30 Aug 2008, 11:26

I wonder if Air One has anything to say in this. If I were them, I would highly object to a forced absorption with Alitalia. Air One is doing rather well with there partnership with Lufthansa at the moment. Why would they want to throw that away for a "merger" with Alitalia?

LX-LGX
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by LX-LGX » 30 Aug 2008, 22:57

galaxy wrote:
Prosecutors launch Alitalia investigation.

Alitalia, Italy’s troubled national airline, faces new challenges today, after an announcement on the part of Italian prosecutors that they will look into allegations claiming that tax payers had to foot a massive €5 billion bill in order to save the carrier from looming bankruptcy. These government payments have been going on for the past decade and consumer lobby groups in Italy have, for some time, been highly critical of Italian efforts to save the carrier, using large sums of public money. CODACONS, one of Italy’s largest consumer groups, has lodged a complaint about government subsidies and loans. The organization is especially critical of a recent €300 million emergency loan that authorities provided Alitalia with this past April, in order to spare it from all but certain bankruptcy.

The European Commission (EC) seems to agree with the consumer group in its assessment of the emergency loan, noting that this form of state aid to a national airline was not permitted under European Union rules. The EC also indicated that the loan gave Alitalia an “economic advantage it would not have had under normal market conditions.” British Airways has now also joined the growing chorus of major airlines in condemning the emergency loan.

CODACONS, however, is just as acutely concerned about this loan, as it is about reported payouts to Alitalia executives. Former chairman Maurizio Prato, for example, allegedly received over €326,000 in five months, according to the consumer group’s calculations.
What will Berlusconi say now ? Are Italian tax payers idiots ?.
This is what Berlusconi could tell the Italian tax payer:

1. the loan was approved through a government decision from his precessor, on 23 April 2008. Berlusconi took over on 08 May 2008.

2. contrary to what the above quote suggests, the European Commission hasn't formally decided yet that the loan is against European Law. The above quote is a part of one of the seven remarks, the EU has filed to explain it was formally opening an investigation (by asking the public to submit comments on the loan):
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 040:EN:PDF

3. Berlusconi will not say that Italian tax payers are idiots. He will only say that they now have to pay the bill for voting too many times for politicians who:
a) have bought votes by offering employment at Alitalia;
b) think it's normal that the government spends public money into state controlled organisations;
c) have proven to be much more corrupt then himself (i.e. Craxi).

4. 326.000 euro for five months at the top from Alitalia? Well, the CEO from Belgacom gets more (before and after his recent contract renewal of 1,7 mio euro p/a).

5. Alitalia has lost confidence from the upmost important player in the industry: the passenger. If one would 100 European travellers which airlines goes on strike the most, I'm sure 99 of them would say Alitalia. As a result, passengers don't book AZ - unless there is no alternative.

Bottom line: would be great if the anti-Berlusconi fans here would accept that Berlusconi is not the only Italian politician to be blamed, and that time finally has run out for Alitalia.

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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by fc82091 » 30 Aug 2008, 23:03

atleast he's trying to save as much as possible unlike the situation over here some years ago :roll:

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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by sn26567 » 31 Aug 2008, 12:14

Sikiri wrote:I wonder if Air One has anything to say in this.
The boss of Air One Carlo Toto will himself be one of the investors in the new Alitalia: he will invest 100 million euros out of the 300 million he will receive from the sale of Air One to Aliatlia.
André
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BelgianBoy
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by BelgianBoy » 31 Aug 2008, 16:54

Don't forget Air One is already associated in a certain way with Lufthansa

regi
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by regi » 01 Sep 2008, 11:51

And here sits a satisfied person: Alitalia will not longer exist.
Getting a new nam, stake holders, managment and probably other personel as well, this sounds like a new company.
Bury it , deep, very deep, so it would never resurrect .

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euroflyer
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Re: Alitalia's future

Post by euroflyer » 01 Sep 2008, 16:19

regi wrote:And here sits a satisfied person: Alitalia will not longer exist.
Getting a new nam, stake holders, managment and probably other personel as well, this sounds like a new company.
Bury it , deep, very deep, so it would never resurrect .
Ha, it is fine to change the name, the top management, even the shareholders, this can be done from a Board room - the hardest part will still come: change the mentality of the staff towards the company and motivate them at the same time as a big number of colleagues will have to leave the company. And without doing so, the new company will very fast have to face the same problems which ruined AZ ...
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