Belgian Delegation

[AirDupont]

I read somewhere in the newspaper the other day that Prince Filip is going on a mission to Qatar and some other countries. Is it likely to see a QR aircraft in BRU for a regular service someday?

[Atlantis]

Only if there is also a delegation of Brussels Airport too.

[LX-LGX]

I read somewhere in the newspaper the other day that Prince Filip is going on a mission to Qatar and some other countries. Is it likely to see a QR aircraft in BRU for a regular service someday?

Actually, it's a trade mission to Bahrein and Qatar. The trade mission will leave on 3th Nov 2007. At this moment, flight details are only announced to the participants. Check the Luchtzak-Spotters-Database around end of October, and you will see if there will be a QR-plane here.

My guess: CA-01, Belgian Army's A310, seen in action here: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1262868/M/

general info:
in Dutch: http://tinyurl.com/3xse2z
in French : http://tinyurl.com/2nxwqe

practical info (except info on the flights...)
in Dutch : http://tinyurl.com/32bluu
in French : http://tinyurl.com/2v528h

[Erna]

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but we're flying BA....

[spotter1102]

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but we're flying BA....

Via LHR or a BA plane will come in BRU to pick up the deleguation ?


It was the case for the economic mission in China in 2005 : a 747-400 of Lufthansa came in BRU.

[TWA]

Yesterday a Belgian newschannel showed the visit of the Flemish minister of culture and tourism to SouthAfrica, in which they continuously highlighted the increasing number of Flemish moving to and living in SA, as well as the importance of Belgian tourists visiting every year.

Was his visit also kind of an official delegation?

Hope this will one day result in a BRU ---> CPT/JNB nonstop SN operated flight.

[LX-LGX]

could be off topic...

Yesterday a Belgian newschannel showed the visit of the Flemish minister of culture and tourism to South Africa, in which they continuously highlighted the increasing number of Flemish moving to and living in SA, as well as the importance of Belgian tourists visiting every year. Was his visit also kind of an official delegation?

It was not a trade mission, but press is always invited. Every minister has a budget for overseas travel, and they always look for a (cheap) reason to explain the purpose of their mission to the press - wellwilling as they're travelling for free. Because that's the only thing that counts for the minister: "how will my trip be broadcasted on tv?"

Although I'm respecting Geert Bourgeois as Flemish minister of Tourism, his South Africa trips (actually: to Southern Africa) should be seen as (correct) support for Flemish Development Aid, also one of his tasks.

There are indeed many Belgian living in South Africa, but the boom was during 1995-2005, not nowadays. Tourism from Belgium to South Africa also isn't booming anymore and it is not that spectacular: Jan-Jul 2007, compared to Jan-Jul 2006: + 4,9 % (compared to + 3,4 % for Europe and +5,1 % for overseas tourist arrivals). In numbers: arrivals are between Switserland and Ireland, but far behind the UK and Germany.

source: South Africa Tourism - official SA Tourism Board:
http://www.southafrica.net/satourism/re ... mentID=459

- - - - - -

Hope this will one day result in a BRU ---> CPT/JNB nonstop SN operated flight.

An A330-300 is unable to reach JNB - and thus off course CPT, which is the end (or start) of every normal tourism trip. Also, there's the bad SN-history of the loss making flight with the Citybird MD-11. Some also say the route was not profitable with SN's own A340-300, but I can assure you: it was one of the best routes (specially with palets of fresh grapes and pineapples in the cargo). Sobelair is a different story, as mr. V. insisted on that route: he owned most of the tax free shops at the international SA airports...

[TWA]

also off topic...

Thx for the info.

LTU is flying the DUS CPT route with A330's but I guess that's a -200 series then.

[Kabila]

Hope this will one day result in a BRU ---> CPT/JNB nonstop SN operated flight.

Very unlikely. SN is going to feed pax from JNB through it's new Congoloese venture in FIH. (at least, that is what was discussed in an other topic).

So SN flying directly to JNB/CPT from BRU is probably not going to happen soon. Maybe in 2010 when the world cup soccer is hosted by South Africa... but even then I doubt it will happen.

Not that a route to JNB/CPT from BRU can't be successful but with the current SN management it is certainly not going to venture into South Africa any time soon.

I am sure that a route BRU- JNB/CPTcan be profitable if you use the right aircraft, have a good schedule, support sales and marketing for the route, offer a good product and use a good feeder in JNB, have enough cash to mature the route,... but SN won't do it and there are no other Belgian airlines capable of setting up such a flight.

Alternatively, SA or CE (Nationwide Airlines) or MN (Comair South Africa, a BA frnachise) could open routes to BRU, but also that is very unlikely.

SA just pulled out of ZRH and will stop CDG end of October... so they will certainly never open a route to BRU.

CE is holding traffic rights to BRU, but never opened the route after Sobelair went down the pipe. And I doubt that CE is really planning any BRU service soon. Their partnership with Sobelair and it's demise scared the hell out of them to start a BRU flight.

The best chance to have a flight to South Africa is that maybe BRU Airport can try to convince/attract CE to add a tag to their current JNB-LGW flight to create a JNB-LGW-BRU-LGW-JNB and let the 767 spend the day in BRU rather than LGW - just like ET is tagging it's ADD-CDG and ADD-FRA to BRU and letting it's 767 spend the day in BRU. Maybe by offering them free parking for 10 or more hours in BRU and give them an extra financial incentive, they might hopefully bite into the project... but even then it's doubtful that CE will be interested since they probably easily fill their flight ex-UK and don't need the BRU pax at all.

CM has applied for a JNB-LON service and they will probably focus on that route first before they even start serving other European cities, so little chance form that side either.

[RadarContact]

Maybe they can make a stopover in Mauritius. I'd love to see a new direct link with that island.

[LX-LGX]

... a BRU ---> CPT/JNB nonstop SN operated flight is very unlikely... SN is going to feed pax from JNB through it's new Congolese venture in FIH (at least, that is what was discussed in an other topic).

Like you say: it has been said in this forum, but I think it's very unlikely. A day flight with stopover is too unconvenient for pax: the FIH-flights leave BRU around 10h00 a.m., and arrive in Kinshasa around 19h00. Connecting to JNB at 21h00 is impossible, due to the curfew at JNB (thaught it's 24h00->06h00). Don't forget to add one hour for the pathetic passport control at JNB. Connecting flights thus are impossible.

So SN flying directly to JNB/CPT from BRU is probably not going to happen soon. Maybe in 2010 when the world cup soccer is hosted by South Africa... but even then I doubt it will happen.)

The soccer event will probably take place during August, the second worst month for tourism from Europe to SA (June is the worst, July is a slightly better SA winter month). Which means: flights will have to be filled up with soccer fans and VFR's, but not with tourists. Thus: Y-pax, almost no Business Class.

Not that a route to JNB/CPT from BRU can't be successful but with the current SN management it is certainly not going to venture into South Africa any time soon.

I don't understand why it's a management error that the A330-300 can't make it from BRU to JNB/CPT. A333 is the best equipment for their actual Africa-network. Don't believe what others are saying here about bad management: the airline is alive and well, with off course problems to be solved - like at any similar company.

I am sure that a route BRU- JNB/CPT can be profitable if you use the right aircraft, have a good schedule, support sales and marketing for the route, offer a good product and use a good feeder in JNB, have enough cash to mature the route,... but SN won't do it and there are no other Belgian airlines capable of setting up such a flight..

Everything is there (including the start up budget) except the EQP.

Alternatively, SA or CE (Nationwide Airlines) or MN (Comair South Africa, a BA franchise) could open routes to BRU, but also that is very unlikely. SAA just pulled out of ZRH and will stop CDG end of October... so they will certainly never open a route to BRU.

Talking about stupid management decisions: here you have three who qualify for the world record: grounding the 744's, putting CDG offline and putting ZRH, their highest yield, offline. Only to send more A340's to LHR and FRA.

CE is holding traffic rights to BRU, but never opened the route after Sobelair went down the pipe. And I doubt that CE is really planning any BRU service soon. Their partnership with Sobelair and it's demise scared the hell out of them to start a BRU flight. The best chance to have a flight to South Africa is that maybe BRU Airport can try to convince/attract CE to add a tag to their current JNB-LGW flight to create a JNB-LGW-BRU-LGW-JNB and let the 767 spend the day in BRU rather than LGW - just like ET is tagging it's ADD-CDG and ADD-FRA to BRU and letting it's 767 spend the day in BRU. Maybe by offering them free parking for 10 or more hours in BRU and give them an extra financial incentive, they might hopefully bite into the project... but even then it's doubtful that CE will be interested since they probably easily fill their flight ex-UK and don't need the BRU pax at all.

I've been told that BRU already had a meeting with Nationwide about six months ago, but CE is too afraid they're going to loose their slot at LGW when BRU-LGW-JNB leaves too late out of BRU.

CM has applied for a JNB-LON service and they will probably focus on that route first before they even start serving other European cities, so little chance form that side either.

If they would do so, Comair will use STD or LGW, not LHR. And mother company BA now has quite some BRU-pax for JNB/CPT, so I don't think that Comair will extend STD/LGW to BRU.

- - -

I will come back to the World Cup soccer later, as the South African authorities already have decided which airline has to go to which airport.

[LX-LGX]

... Maybe in 2010 when the world cup soccer is hosted by South Africa...

Regarding the World Cup, the South African Department of Transport has concluded deals with foreign airlines directing them to specific airports in the country so as to avoid overcrowding at JNB. The following entry points have been identified for airlines:

* JNB for all airlines flying from Europe, the Middle East and the rest of Africa;
* CPT for all airlines flying from the Americas;
* DUR and the new King Shaka International Airport at La Mercy for airlines flying from Asia/Pacific and Australasia;
* Gauteng’s secondary and support airports such as Lanseria, Grand Central and Rand Airport will provide relief for JNB on private, business jet and general aviation;
* Smaller airports such as Lanseria, Polokwane and Kruger Mpumalanga International Airport will also be used for intercontinental and regional operations, but customs and immigration services there may need upgrading.

- - -

South African carriers must use their unused frequencies, "otherwise we will have to lean more on international carriers for capacity enhancement,” warned Department of Transport chief director of civil aviation, Anwar Abdul Gany. Some 400.000 soccer lovers were expected to converge on South Africa in 2010 and a lot needed to be done to increase capacity, he said.

In terms of its ‘use-it-or-lose-it’ policy, the DoT had also cut from 12 to 9 months the time an airline had to start using its route rights or lose them. Carriers have now been snapping up domestic and regional routes that rivals had been sitting on for strategic purposes.

(source: travelhub.co.za)