Future of Brussels Airlines

BigJets · Post by **BigJets** » 24 Sep 2007, 13:34

Air Key West and Ducatibiker: Thanks for the compliments.

Load factors. is this really important? Of course it's important but more important are good yields. How much money is coming in? If tomorrow I start a 747 service from Brussels to London and I ask 300 Euro per ticket. How are my load factors going to be? Not so good I think. if I ask 1 (one) Euro per ticket then I will fill the aircraft and at the end of the year I can call for a press conference and announce INCREADIBLE load factors. The general public will be amazed. "Wow, that airline must be doing very well!". Would I be doing very well? AM I MAKING ANY MONEY selling tickets at 1 Euro? Like you said Air Key West "Revenue is more important than load factors!!"

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:You know, when you operate more than 200 flights per day, 200€ of extra revenue on each flight is 40 000€ less you lose, and 40 000€ more the competition loses. On a yearly basis that brings dozens of millions of extra revenue.

FLY4HOURS.BE: You're absolutely right and, as a short term solution, I'm sure that's how Brussels is thinking right now. Unfortunately this does not solve the long term problems. As an airline you can not announce that you are "low cost" when you are not. The cost structure of brussels Airlines is much too high compared to companies like EasyJet and Ryanair.

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:The SSJ is rolling out next week Tuesday, and is far from being a bad aircraft.

Oh, I'm not saying that the new Russian aircraft are bad aircraft. On the contrary. Besides the problems of spare parts (support) there is also public opinion. what are your customers going to think about flying on russian aircraft? It's a bit like the Skoda. It is a perfectly good car. The engine is even a volkswagen engine but people still think of it as inferior and of poor quality. it is absolutely unfair but this is the general public's "perception".

Ducatibiker wrote:An important item for me is pricing in Business. UA/LH has some very competitive pricing/promotions in C/Z. Jet Airways has to offer matching or better rates out of BRU.

Ducatibiker: You have just confirmed what I have been saying. Whether it's Business Class or Economy, why would Jet Airways lower their prices if their flights are full anyway? This is thee way to attract more people to fly between Belgium and America. I say it again: You are never better served than by yourself. What are you waiting for Brussels Airlines? if they don't do it, then eventually someone else will.

The Brussels market is limited but there is still so much potential. Montreal, Boston, Dallas, Miami, Johannesburg, Tokyo, just to name a few.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Sep 2007, 14:28

Unfortunately this does not solve the long term problems. As an airline you can not announce that you are "low cost" when you are not. The cost structure of brussels Airlines is much too high compared to companies like EasyJet and Ryanair.

True but B.air is not using what I have enounced earlier. Just take a look at their last minutes... They are all but give-aways. The true cheap ones are only the first minutes.

And I don't agree with Erica on personnel matters as B.air is saving alot of money on personnel.
There are endless Q's at the check-in due to lack of personnel.
Pilots & stewards/hostesses are paid the lowest salaries in the industry.

Bigjet: It takes decades to make of nothing a LCC as Easyjet and FR.
If B.air had the money, we wouldn't be seeing Avro's at BRU but A319's.
Give them a couple of years.
I also blaimed them alot in the past.
But since they announced their various projects including Africa, I tend to support them: projects and dreams reflect motivation, and I have respect for people who have good motivations.

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 24 Sep 2007, 15:19

ERICAIRLINES wrote:But once again even with a solid long range network it will not be so easy to regain pax who since the end of sabena choosed LH,BA,AF etc because of the frequent flyers programs...they are logged in.

For leisure pax it is not so important,the low fare is the most important and if possible a non stop flight..but for business oriented pax,it is an important issue (miles,frequencies,non stop flights,alliance,connections,services etc)...

Absolutely right on the dot ! But Privilege Management never understood that. The Elite stauts are harder to reach for residents in Belgium which is in today's flatworld an absurdity. So now I am building a "relationship" with *Alliance in terms of miles and € purchases.

cyclingcedric · Post by **cyclingcedric** » 24 Sep 2007, 15:41

And another manager bites the dust. Luc Cassier, ex cabin crew manager and since a couple of months manager of VIP services has left the boat. Wonder where he's going now.....

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:01

Of course, you're right, Cartman. There was a bit of irony in my post (but I probably didn't manage to get that part/nuance of the message through).

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:12

I fully agree with you Ericairlines. On a political note (but we should not discuss politics here, should we ?) the only wise decision b.air made is not to have any reference to Belgium in their name (who knows what's going to happen to Belgium in the future ?).
The only slight note of disagreement would be on a partnership with BA (British Airways). Their main home ariport is close to a disaster (who wants to travel via LHR ?). But one of the two other alliances is unlikely.
Would there be room for a fourth alliance headed by airlines like 9W ?

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:26

And that is the reason why BRU could help BA as LHR is a total disaster now...they could launch a kind of 'Continental terminal',with frequent shuttle LON/BRU...and bru would become a terminal 6 kind of ,for BA...

LH,AF/KL don't need BRU they have very good airport in their portfolio:cdg,ams,muc,fra...new Berlin airport

Lx is out of question,and is a LH subsidiary AZ is nearly dead..IB will be sold but to whom?

And i don't see ..ryanair or easy buying Bru air!! too funny ...eventhough that is what Fr tried to do with aer lingus...

9w ..or VS (richard back)...or another global carrier like emirates,etihad...but they don't really need bru for their expansion plans

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Sep 2007, 18:46

Hey guys and girls, there's too much extremism going on in here.

Africa is and always was a very unsteady location to make some business and even more in terms of local aviation..

You want them to compete with AF LH KL or BA on Asian/North American/Middle East routes?
Africa is their only option and that's why they're taking the risk.
A risk no one else wants to take, and therefore the stake is bigger.
The European network's sucess also depends alot of this project.
Every full A333 coming back from Kinshasa can load alot of transit pax.

And that is the reason why BRU could help BA as LHR is a total disaster now...they could launch a kind of 'Continental terminal',with frequent shuttle LON/BRU...and bru would become a terminal 6 kind of ,for BA...

I find this too crazy

You tend to forget why LHR is a mess: it is a hub.
Most of the pax go through LHR for its transit possibilities.
An extra transit in BRU would not make sense for pax, certainly combined with long-haul flights.

Greets

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 24 Sep 2007, 18:58

and God just talked....

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 24 Sep 2007, 19:43

I did some background research on you dear Ericairlines and look what I found:

ERICAIRLINES said:
As an ex Sabénien,please let's hope this new company will NOT be named Sabena

and that's why you said:

Problem of Bru air is that the ex sabena staff who still work for them(almost 80 pct)were the worst they kept..those afraid or leaving when the curator took over operations...thes best employees (with a few exceptions)..same for ex 'vex' (even worse)...and vex was also full of ex sabeniens staff....

You are probably part of that 20% who doesn't work with B.air anymore, and I can understand you being pissed off, but that's no reason to disrespect other people on here.

Cheers

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 24 Sep 2007, 21:03

As a passenger I see differences between:
a-ex Sabena - Europe
b-ex Sabena - Trans continental
c-DAT
d-SNBA
e-Virgin
f-Sitel
I met service oriented people in all of those categories, but would agree that in some of those categories, people are more service minded than in other. Attitude was different...

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 24 Sep 2007, 21:17

When you see how Swiss and Tap are doing now....there is no way to compare...
Yes ducatibiker a,b,c,d,e,f..and then next ? lol

C-46commando · Post by **C-46commando** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:26

ERICAIRLINES wrote:And that is the reason why BRU could help BA as LHR is a total disaster now...they could launch a kind of 'Continental terminal',with frequent shuttle LON/BRU...and bru would become a terminal 6 kind of ,for BA...

LH,AF/KL don't need BRU they have very good airport in their portfolio:cdg,ams,muc,fra...new Berlin airport

Lx is out of question,and is a LH subsidiary

Sorry for saying this but entering an alliance is not about competing for the best airport, its about strategic development (opening of new routes/expanding network, more choice to the client). Honestly, do you think BA really needs B.air. We are competing with them for East Africa. Ok, in case they are over-booked they can solve their problem by giving B.air their PAX, woaw thats what I call a good alliance. AA of course wouldn't be bad but they are in OneWorld (BAWorld). The best option for B.air would have been to join Star Alliance. Come to think of it, LH has basically no network in Africa, but serves Asia well, e.i a good complement to each other. Unfortunatly LX came into the game. I am not pretending to know which alliance is the best, but I am pretty convinces that OneWorld is not a good option.

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:44

Well, I recently flew on UA with an ex Pan Am crew supervisor. Interesting to see as the airline (UA) has gone global, they think in terms of base: SFO, ORD and IAD. What makes the difference is how they are treated. And the way they are treated reflects on the way they are treating the passengers !

codo · Post by **codo** » 24 Sep 2007, 23:56

cyclingcedric wrote: Why not take some A320's or Boeing 737's to serve West Africa? .

ever heard about cargo ?

thofman2 · Post by **thofman2** » 25 Sep 2007, 09:16

An extra transit in BRU would not make sense for pax, certainly combined with long-haul flights.

I have read in one other topic and in Airliner World that British Airways is planning to open transatlantic connection from Brussels.
In this case, the hub in Brussels would be logic to optimize of seats occupation of the long haul bodies and to provide more seats in LHR ...

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 25 Sep 2007, 09:45

But BA has no European network in BRU, and I don't see them using the B.air European network which will only benefit B.air and in no matters BA (whose pax will need to shuttle to LHR to take the next connection), because that will also mean that BA is gonna loose alot of intra-EU pax's.

And why would they compete on transatlantic routes with One-world partner American Airlines while the latter isn't even filling its planes?

You guys have to explain me because I have a hard time finding out how that would benefit BRU and certainly B.Air...

Cheers

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 25 Sep 2007, 09:54

Bru air gives access to Bru...that is their major asset in case of eventual take over

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 25 Sep 2007, 19:56

I would never buy a ticket on British Airways in C/F originating in BRU.
They have very good deal/promotions out of UK...

JOVAN · Post by **JOVAN** » 06 Oct 2007, 10:28

ERICAIRLINES wrote:When you see how Swiss and Tap are doing now....there is no way to compare...

and Finnair, Malev, Austrian, CSA ...

All have become members of an alliance and see how they flourish (expanding network, upgrading service, investing in new aircraft.

How different from SN.

What would you think: SN does not want to be part of an alliance ,
or
no alliance wants an airline like SN to be a member.....