Solution for Belgian pilots?

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Jazzy
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Solution for Belgian pilots?

Post by Jazzy »

Info from an intro government Friend:

- Training scheme to be financed by the Belgian Government. In return pilots would have to stay for at least xx years(no info received) at a Belgian Airline
- On top of this an arrangment will be made for pilots who started to fly for a Belgian Airline effictive jan 2002 and WHO ARE STILL FLYING under the national flag
- Airforce pilot retraining(especially Alpha jet and F-16) as commercial pilot
- Salary taxes to be redefined and modified to European standards.

This could be a direct result from teh meetings the joint all Belgian Airlines had with government officials after a press meting early august.

Hope it comes true

Pittsboy
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Post by Pittsboy »

I agree, although I have my reservations as to whether or not this bill will pass through all government stages.

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TUB001
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Post by TUB001 »

Would be very good of course but I really doubt this will happen anytime soon.

FTO's have always tried to reduce taxes on different things (to give you an example, 1h of flight can cost up to 100€ in a C150, think 20% of this money goes to the govt...) and nothing ever happened.

As for the airforce pilots, sorry, but they have choosen their way and if they wanna go to the commercial industry, well... they can pay for it. All of us have done it, so why not them?

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

Gret great great great news!!!!

I think this will be effective very soon (if ever) as the shortage is already there now and making huge damages.

TUB001, in a Belgian FTO, a flight hour on a Cessna 150 costs at least 108€ without airport taxes...
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Johan23
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Post by Johan23 »

Will they also refund those who paid for their training?

Regards

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

That's unlikely (but that might be so, who am I to judge?).

But if you're a graduate without a job yet, I'm sure you won't have a hard time finding a job now...
If you're not, the govs will certainly sign this treaty, only if they get the promise that airlines will actually hire as many pilots as they need (otherwise gov will make losses).

And the market looks great as there will be no flightcrew number saturation in the next decade in all Europe.
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TUB001
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Post by TUB001 »

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote: TUB001, in a Belgian FTO, a flight hour on a Cessna 150 costs at least 108€ without airport taxes...
106€ for a C150 at EBCI with taxes.
When I started it was 99€ all included.

That is for FTO's. In clubs it is usually 20% (or should I say 21? :twisted: ) less...you know why.

Voice of Reason
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007, 13:24

Post by Voice of Reason »

Why doesn’t the government cut taxes for pilots and airlines? That way we could afford to pay the going rate and attract and keep pilots. An added advantage to this would be getting and retaining a good level of experience and therefore safety instead of ending up with an airline full of kids with 200 – 1000 hours and several smoking holes where things went wrong.

dre
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Post by dre »

Hi there,

I dont think this will happen soon. To complicated, european tax law has priority over internal law. Making an exemption for pilots and airlines will cause more trouble than it solves in other parts of the market. All sectors have to deal with the high belgian taxes.

saratoga
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Post by saratoga »

I'm not very fond of this idea.

Îf they want to take measures, it should be for everybody, not only for the aviation industry.

That's my opinion

grtz

pressman
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Post by pressman »

dre wrote:Hi there,

I dont think this will happen soon. To complicated, european tax law has priority over internal law. Making an exemption for pilots and airlines will cause more trouble than it solves in other parts of the market. All sectors have to deal with the high belgian taxes.
Whilst agreeing with you about this not happening soon , european tax law does not have precedence over national tax laws regarding income tax , you just need to look at the special status Air france pilots have to see this . it is of course possible in Belgium , but in a country that can't even form a government how long do you think special tax status will take , let alone the government financing the pilots career , even when there is a government formed , it will be no more than a debating society , a toothless tiger so to speak , belgian aviation is down the drain and it is going to require a lot of help to get back to it's feet .

Air Key West
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Post by Air Key West »

I strongly hope the current or future governement can do something for the salary and tax problem for Belgian pilots, but I doubt it will. Some of you are going to say I'm crazy : what about b.air's pilots being under contract with Pan African Airlines in Mauritius (with good private health insurance and a good private pension plan) and then be hired back by b.air ?
In favor of quality air travel.

fcw
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Post by fcw »

The solution, I heard they are thinking about, is not a real tax decrease:
You could be allowed to deduct training cost from your income over a five year period, so resulting in paying less tax when you work in belgium...

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

This is great, as people who need to work to pay their airline pilot studies other than from their parent's deep pockets will finally get a chance.

That would be an achievement!!
How many people do I know who are working in the horeca, taxi and other sectors to achieve their dream while paying Europe's most expensive income taxes?
Dozens.

And the worst is that they seem to be the most motivated of all.

This action would be justified in front of other tax-payers, as ATPL students are the only students who are not backed by education funds.
Fly4hours, making the path to airline pilot affordable to all

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buck
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Post by buck »

fcw wrote:The solution, I heard they are thinking about, is not a real tax decrease:
You could be allowed to deduct training cost from your income over a five year period, so resulting in paying less tax when you work in belgium...
This is not bad at all, but it will not prevent that, after the 5 years, pilots
will leave Belgium, because the difference with other countries will be there again.

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

If training costs are reduced, highly motivated middle-class people will have access to it. And they will be more than happy to stay near home earning 3000€ per month while awaiting their upgrade to a captain position earning 6000€ a month, without having any loan to pay back.
This is a wise investment for the government, as its rendement is way higher than other courses in the same salary scale (Doctors, PhD's,...).

Also, parallel to this scheme, other schemes like pension and anciennety bonuses will be expected to be improved very soon so that the flightcrew will stay.
Surely some will leave for more tempting offers as Netjets, but that will only balance the market, as too many pilots is not healthy neither.

Combined, these will give a good recycling of the flightcrew market within Belgium (old pilots go, young pilots come).

I'm sure this will be effective very soon, as the shortage is now right on the eye of the tornado, making huge damages.
Fly4hours, making the path to airline pilot affordable to all

fly
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Post by fly »

How about people paying the courses themselfs without a bankloan or deep pockets of their parents by just working for it a few years and then doing the course, or people doing the course in a forreign country (JAA).
6000 euro as a captain ???? what airline in belgium is that (yeah maybe after 15 years)
what the governement would be giving is peanuts a more substantial measure is needed.

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

How about people paying the courses themselfs
I think you might be misunderstanding, because these are the people targeted. Those who take a loan or have rich parents will not work, and therefore not be able to benefit from tax-reductions.

B.air pays 6000€ to its captains flying A319/A333 and 3000€ to its grown-up F/O's.

So if you are working to pay your training, you will be able to substract the training costs from your brut salary, and declare your net incomes like that.
Fly4hours, making the path to airline pilot affordable to all

fly
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Post by fly »

I don't know where you get this info of 3000 euro for an FO and 6000 euro for a capt, but when I worked for Brussels Airlines not to long ago for a couple of years we did not have these kind of salaries.
However I get the drift of tax deduction in Belgium now, my apologies.....
I still think however that the solution would be to decrease the income tax on employees who spent most of their time outside belgium whilst still working for a belgian employer (like aviation crew) .

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Post by FLY4HOURS.BE »

Those figures are obtained by crew working on A319/A333, and are very reliable numbers.
Fly4hours, making the path to airline pilot affordable to all

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