Northwest Airlines is suspending Brussels-Detroit
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Boeing767copilot
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Northwest Airlines is suspending Brussels-Detroit
Northwest Airlines is suspending its Brussels-Detroit service. The last Brussels-Detroit service will operate August 14th, 2007. Northwest Airlines had to take this measure due to operational challenges with cockpit crew on the Boeing 757-200 aircraft.
Has been (shortly) discussed here already.
But, yes, it's true. Last flight will take place 13/08 (not 14) and this is already updated in reservation systems. Amadeus still shows flight, but is closed for reservations.
No information given concerning restarting. It looks like a definite stop. Although we all knows that in airline business NOTHING is ever sure of definite.
But, yes, it's true. Last flight will take place 13/08 (not 14) and this is already updated in reservation systems. Amadeus still shows flight, but is closed for reservations.
No information given concerning restarting. It looks like a definite stop. Although we all knows that in airline business NOTHING is ever sure of definite.
We know that Northwest has an precare shortage of pilots. They cancelled a lot of domestic flights. It seems that they now also suspend intercontinental flights. And that's a pitty because BRU-DTW was a whole new route with high loads.
They are now flying almost two months to BRU. Hopefully they come back very soon or when they have solved their internal problems.
They are now flying almost two months to BRU. Hopefully they come back very soon or when they have solved their internal problems.
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kiwiandrew
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would that be Wed / Sat ex DTW or Wed / Sat ex BRU ?rut-her wrote:Last daily flight on 13/08. However, the system showed that NW will continue till September 1st with flights on wednessday and saturday.
Restart of the daily route from October 28th according to the system.
Greetz,
Rutger
I ask because I have a friend ticketed to fly DTW-BRU Fri 24 arriving BRU Sat 25
Arriving at BRU on Wednessday and Saturday, 0535UTC or 0735LT.kiwiandrew wrote:would that be Wed / Sat ex DTW or Wed / Sat ex BRU ?rut-her wrote:Last daily flight on 13/08. However, the system showed that NW will continue till September 1st with flights on wednessday and saturday.
Restart of the daily route from October 28th according to the system.
Greetz,
Rutger
I ask because I have a friend ticketed to fly DTW-BRU Fri 24 arriving BRU Sat 25
Greetz,
Rutger
According to the partner of Northwest, AirFrance-KLM, was the new route BRU-DTW a success and they regret the decision of Northwest.
They are now flying till 13.08 and then no flights anymore, not one or two in a week. On the bookingsite of Northwest the same, no flights after 13.08.
Its a real pity, also for our airport and the people who worked very hard behind the scenes. But maybe they come back after a while.
They are now flying till 13.08 and then no flights anymore, not one or two in a week. On the bookingsite of Northwest the same, no flights after 13.08.
Its a real pity, also for our airport and the people who worked very hard behind the scenes. But maybe they come back after a while.
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jan_olieslagers
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Silly question perhaps, but yet... If the route was working i.e. demand enough, why doesn't any other airline operate it? Why don't AF/KL themselves have a go at it? Wasn't there a deregulation agreed between US & Europe?Atlantis wrote:According to the partner of Northwest, AirFrance-KLM, was the new route BRU-DTW a success and they regret the decision of Northwest.
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tolipanebas
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I think regardless of the official reasons on just why they have axed this flight, the fact they picked precisely this one must be it is one of the lesser performing ones at NW. I just can't see NW saying: we need to axe a flight, let's just take the last one added, regardless of its yields and revenues...
Not saying they are using the lack of crews as an excuse, but rather that the route probably isn't a great money maker (yet)... this simple fact also makes it far from sure we will see them back once they have sorted their problems out... Oh well, the others probably won't mind
Not saying they are using the lack of crews as an excuse, but rather that the route probably isn't a great money maker (yet)... this simple fact also makes it far from sure we will see them back once they have sorted their problems out... Oh well, the others probably won't mind
This was so predictable and so typical for NW. In my mind I had given them 6 months, but they didn't even last that long.
A couple of years ago they did the same with Oslo. Started DTW - OSL with a DC10 ! Imagine ! Lasted just a few weeks.
The pilot issue has nothing to do with it. The BRU route was probably just not doing well. They probably thought: if it's that bad in summer, what will happen in the winter ? The pilots was just a good excuse.
Unfortuantely, many airlines like NW believe that routes should make money from day one. But you are wrong if you start flying to BRU.
BRU is a very difficult market where you need to mature a route before it starts making money. Sometimes you have to wait 2 - 3 years before you make a penny. And then of course you need a lot of cash to fill the gap for 3 years.
If you ask me, next one is US axing BRU PHL. Won't last very long either. Unfortunately, there is just not enough O & D traffic between BRU and PHL and if you need to live on low fare / low yield transfer passengers... then you can forget it.
In a competitive BRU-USA market with that many big players that have been here for many years (AA, DL, UA, CO ) and who have established long lasting relations with high fare paying business class customers, it is very difficult to compete and lure away those customers. Start convincing those business customers to come and start flying with you on a B757 iso of B767 or B777. Good luck. Only by giving them big discounts you can lure them, but then again you won't make a penny. Unless you have enough cash to cover the losses for a while...
A couple of years ago they did the same with Oslo. Started DTW - OSL with a DC10 ! Imagine ! Lasted just a few weeks.
The pilot issue has nothing to do with it. The BRU route was probably just not doing well. They probably thought: if it's that bad in summer, what will happen in the winter ? The pilots was just a good excuse.
Unfortuantely, many airlines like NW believe that routes should make money from day one. But you are wrong if you start flying to BRU.
BRU is a very difficult market where you need to mature a route before it starts making money. Sometimes you have to wait 2 - 3 years before you make a penny. And then of course you need a lot of cash to fill the gap for 3 years.
If you ask me, next one is US axing BRU PHL. Won't last very long either. Unfortunately, there is just not enough O & D traffic between BRU and PHL and if you need to live on low fare / low yield transfer passengers... then you can forget it.
In a competitive BRU-USA market with that many big players that have been here for many years (AA, DL, UA, CO ) and who have established long lasting relations with high fare paying business class customers, it is very difficult to compete and lure away those customers. Start convincing those business customers to come and start flying with you on a B757 iso of B767 or B777. Good luck. Only by giving them big discounts you can lure them, but then again you won't make a penny. Unless you have enough cash to cover the losses for a while...
Maybe one of the established US carriers can start BRU-DET if it really was succesfull? I can imagine CO flying a 752 for the start and progressively expanding if the demand is there (752-762-maybe 764) or United starting a second flight. I don't think AA or DL will start a third route however.
And, further on, I wonder if the 9W flight between BRU and EWR will be succesfull with CO having a monopoly on that route, it will probably be succesfull BOM-EWR, but I don't think many people will board at Brussels.
And, further on, I wonder if the 9W flight between BRU and EWR will be succesfull with CO having a monopoly on that route, it will probably be succesfull BOM-EWR, but I don't think many people will board at Brussels.
I don't think 9w is part of the discussion. Most of their pax are boarding at BOM to EWR. Some of them will have their final destination at BRU but most ot them EWR.K_R wrote: And, further on, I wonder if the 9W flight between BRU and EWR will be succesfull with CO having a monopoly on that route, it will probably be succesfull BOM-EWR, but I don't think many people will board at Brussels.
BRU is just the European hub for 9W. They use this airport for the flights between India and America. You can't compare this situation with NW or US.
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ERICAIRLINES
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there is no market for PHL and DTW from Bru it is not new...why don't they take a look at IATA Bsp yearly reports,before opening new routes??
BOS would have been a better choice...
Same for Canada,no real market for YYZ...from BRU it is YUL and only YUL eventhough it is mostly a low yield route,it has the volume at least (50.000 pax a year from bru)
Same for LAX,SFO,DFW,Mia etc...no market wide enough from BRU
BOS would have been a better choice...
Same for Canada,no real market for YYZ...from BRU it is YUL and only YUL eventhough it is mostly a low yield route,it has the volume at least (50.000 pax a year from bru)
Same for LAX,SFO,DFW,Mia etc...no market wide enough from BRU
According to the Flemish (reliable) newspaper De Standaard, Françoise Dessy, the spokeswoman from Air France/KLM, has said that clients who have booked a flight after 14th August, will be contacted to discuss a rerouting. My guess: onto BRU-AMS-DTW.
Article (sorry, Dutch only): http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... 082007_076
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For pax who read this: you do not have to accept this rerouting. You have the right to cancel, even if Northwest or KLM/AF tells you you have to accept their offer. Crew shortage is not seen as extraordinary circumstances, as stated in the European legislation who is applicable here ("... extraordinary circumstances = which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken...").
The choice to accept the proposed rerouting or to cancel and get full reimbursement is yours: European Regulation 261/2004 is applicable to all flights inbound or outbound a EU-country (and thus also for foreign airlines).
Full text of EU-Regulation 261/2004: http://tinyurl.com/3ctzhn
First part of this European law are a kind of clarifications, followed by the articles of the EU-Regulation. Article 5 goes about cancellations, and 5.1.a refers to Article 8. In Article 8.1, your choice is explained.
However, nothing forbits you to discuss the rerouting offer with KLM/AF: i.e. you could ask them for an additional flight in the U.S., and if the accept it, you accept their rerouting offer. Otherwise, you have to regret to cancel and ask for full pay back within 7 days, as stated in 261/2004 (which they all know).
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For pax who have received notice only within 14 days before departure day, Northwest also has to pay you an indemnity: that is explained in Article 7 of the above EU-Regulation.
Article (sorry, Dutch only): http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... 082007_076
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For pax who read this: you do not have to accept this rerouting. You have the right to cancel, even if Northwest or KLM/AF tells you you have to accept their offer. Crew shortage is not seen as extraordinary circumstances, as stated in the European legislation who is applicable here ("... extraordinary circumstances = which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken...").
The choice to accept the proposed rerouting or to cancel and get full reimbursement is yours: European Regulation 261/2004 is applicable to all flights inbound or outbound a EU-country (and thus also for foreign airlines).
Full text of EU-Regulation 261/2004: http://tinyurl.com/3ctzhn
First part of this European law are a kind of clarifications, followed by the articles of the EU-Regulation. Article 5 goes about cancellations, and 5.1.a refers to Article 8. In Article 8.1, your choice is explained.
However, nothing forbits you to discuss the rerouting offer with KLM/AF: i.e. you could ask them for an additional flight in the U.S., and if the accept it, you accept their rerouting offer. Otherwise, you have to regret to cancel and ask for full pay back within 7 days, as stated in 261/2004 (which they all know).
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For pax who have received notice only within 14 days before departure day, Northwest also has to pay you an indemnity: that is explained in Article 7 of the above EU-Regulation.
Well, I red this evening that US is going to axe Athens - PHL on 2th October. That's also a whole new route for them and this also after some monts. They flew the route with a B767-200.Kabila wrote: If you ask me, next one is US axing BRU PHL. Won't last very long either. Unfortunately, there is just not enough O & D traffic between BRU and PHL and if you need to live on low fare / low yield transfer passengers... then you can forget it.
I don't know for sure if Athens was a seasonal flight.
Sorry for going of topic.
Flew BOS-PHL-BRU on 7/21 and yes 7/22
Howdy,
I flew US on 7/21 and 7/22 BOS-PHL-BRU. How is this possible. The PHL-BRU flight, which was full, was cancelled at 2:30 AM on 7/21/07. USless gave three reasons: Lavatory problem, catering problem, and engine problem. The 7/22 flight was packed. The 7/21 flight must have been full as the lounge at 2:00 AM was packed.
Bill
I flew US on 7/21 and 7/22 BOS-PHL-BRU. How is this possible. The PHL-BRU flight, which was full, was cancelled at 2:30 AM on 7/21/07. USless gave three reasons: Lavatory problem, catering problem, and engine problem. The 7/22 flight was packed. The 7/21 flight must have been full as the lounge at 2:00 AM was packed.
Bill
Right indeed: flying around many passengers doesn't mean that you make a profit.
Cargo is always an important issue as well.
And US customers are very well pampered compared to european customers. This expected service can cost a lot of money.
I witnessed this today at LHR : American Airlines passengers were allowed to skip the very long security line for Terminal 4 connections. There were 2 lines: businnes + first, and economy. All AA travellers could join the short line. And they were not businnes class, because I spoke some of them later on in Brussels.
Secondly , BAA staff at Terminal 4 were 100% strict about the 1 bag a person. Except...for the AA passengers, again.
You could argue that the AA passengers were allowed 2 carry on bags in the USA. But the same for the Qantas passengers coming from the asian hubs were the 1 carry on bag is not imposed. Many had problems this morning at Terminal 4.
3 rd fact: an elderly belgian couple asked for a wheel chair at BRU today but didn't get the assistance . But the 2 elderly AA passengers got a wheel chair service because it was arranged from advance (explanation by staff)
I have nothing against good service. I just tell this because we may forget that it could get very expensive to transport Americans. And the first ones to know it are... USA airlines!
Cargo is always an important issue as well.
And US customers are very well pampered compared to european customers. This expected service can cost a lot of money.
I witnessed this today at LHR : American Airlines passengers were allowed to skip the very long security line for Terminal 4 connections. There were 2 lines: businnes + first, and economy. All AA travellers could join the short line. And they were not businnes class, because I spoke some of them later on in Brussels.
Secondly , BAA staff at Terminal 4 were 100% strict about the 1 bag a person. Except...for the AA passengers, again.
You could argue that the AA passengers were allowed 2 carry on bags in the USA. But the same for the Qantas passengers coming from the asian hubs were the 1 carry on bag is not imposed. Many had problems this morning at Terminal 4.
3 rd fact: an elderly belgian couple asked for a wheel chair at BRU today but didn't get the assistance . But the 2 elderly AA passengers got a wheel chair service because it was arranged from advance (explanation by staff)
I have nothing against good service. I just tell this because we may forget that it could get very expensive to transport Americans. And the first ones to know it are... USA airlines!
This is rather normal. No reservation = no service these days.regi wrote: 3 rd fact: an elderly belgian couple asked for a wheel chair at BRU today but didn't get the assistance . But the 2 elderly AA passengers got a wheel chair service because it was arranged from advance (explanation by staff)
But your general point is absolutely right, americans do think they have more rights than other people and therefore demand more service...
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