Troubles at Brussels Airlines ?

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Locked
User avatar
TWA
Posts: 617
Joined: 04 Oct 2003, 00:00
Location: Thalahassee, FL -- Sint-Truiden, BE
Contact:

Post by TWA »

Ok setlle down , I was only joking, it's very hard to read, that's all...
Last edited by TWA on 25 Mar 2007, 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

LX-LGX
Posts: 2004
Joined: 20 Jan 2004, 00:00
Location: ANR

Post by LX-LGX »

Today had to be a glorious day for Brussels Airlines, with both national and international press covering on (= making publicity for) a new airline.

But take a look at today's press coverage: nobody is talking about b.light and b.flex and nobody is talking about the merger: the press only mentions about problems, such as the 30 minutes, the old uniforms and the refusal to serve drinks on board.

There are a lot of super heroes here who know how the airline has to be managed. Perhaps one of them can tell us how much Marketing has spent for today's presentation. An investment in the future that indeed became wasted money.

One comment on skynet.be said: "follow the unions to Sabena-bis".

Just one of the many examples of today's ANTI-publicity for Brussels Airlines: Flemish television:
http://www2.vrtnieuws.net/cm/vrtnieuws. ... 25_BAStart

User avatar
Bruspotter
Posts: 2008
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: (Antwerp/Belgium)
Contact:

Post by Bruspotter »

Hello

I can understand the crew that they have to turnaround the plane within 30min , it's less time. But other airlines are able to do this too , maybe they should ensure there is enough backup personel at the airports to handle the plane at the ground. I do agree it's a better way to just delay the flight 10min ever flight rather than not flying. It's not too much of a delay , they can even catch up the delay during the flight but I do not find it a good way to answer on the problem , by drying out pax during the flight. People should really get to drink inflight , it's so hot in the plane. Imagine you can't get a drink in a 3hours or longer during flights (not to mention the long-haul flights to Africa).

I also find it pity of the bad start for Brussels Airlines. It's so typical that the media rather likes bad things to be reported (death , destruction , fires , accidents, war etc... rather than showing some good things to keep the hope up).

In every case I wish Brussels Airlines a good future and I hope the problem will soon be solved.


Best regards : Yannick ;)

User avatar
TWA
Posts: 617
Joined: 04 Oct 2003, 00:00
Location: Thalahassee, FL -- Sint-Truiden, BE
Contact:

Post by TWA »

Just to give you an idea, I just passed at the office (B-house) to collect my uniform and all crews leaving on a flight were wearing their NEW uniform

werknemer
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Mar 2007, 13:57

Post by werknemer »

TWA wrote:Ok setlle down , I was only joking, it's very hard to read, that all...

sorry voor mijn engels, heb maar twee jaar deftige leerkrachten gehad tijdens mijn schooljaren!

maar ja, prepotent en ontwetend zijn is een slechte combinatie!!!!!

Ok setlle down , I was not joking

---

blacky: don't go off topic guys.

FlightMate
Posts: 394
Joined: 15 Mar 2007, 14:39

Post by FlightMate »

TWA wrote:Just to give you an idea, I just passed at the office (B-house) to collect my uniform and all crews leaving on a flight were wearing their NEW uniform
Funny, When I came back from my flight, I saw all crews leaving with their old uniform. (appart from 3 stewardess)

Maybe you saw the ex-virgin crews proud in their new uniform

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Post by sean1982 »

OK I don't really get the fuss here.

Big deal going from 40 min to 30 min turn around time. I'm well in my third year with ryanair now we do 25 min turn arounds a long time already. This includes de-planing, quick clean and security checks and boarding. and usually with a fully booked load of 189 pax. (especially in CRL) I think you guys have to realize by now that the "golden age" of aviation is long gone by now. The 2 days overnights for EU destinations or 1 hour turn arounds for loads of money dont make an airline profitable anymore.

You are not gonna tell me that you wont have any time during the flight to sit down for a moment, eat something or go to the toilet ? Especially now that Brussels airlines is doing the same "no frills" service. Selling food and drinks takes less time then doing full service. no?

In my three years with FR I've had to swallow loads of decision by management, never do the crew have anything to say about any decision. BUT every day I still thank my lucky stars that I have the possibility to do a job I love. I still love taking my crew bag and going flying every day I go to work. Even if I work six days a week at 4 sectors per day. I have to admit though that FR pays well! I easily get 2000 nett per month as a purser!!

b-west

Post by b-west »

Just got back from the airport. On the ground everything seemed to go smooth. Everybody was wearing their new uniform, lots of management looking types running around. And kudos to the nice looking info, ticketing check-in, and self check in stands. I loved the little tail shaped lamps on the counters. Everything looked very professional and well designed. And the Tempelhof flight left precise on schedule. Lets hope it's the positive things that'll be remembered... (though I fear otherwise)

User avatar
Deluxe
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Mar 2007, 17:44

Post by Deluxe »

However I tried to go back to the basics of the problem in order to point out that that the cabing crew should be able to do the turn around in the 30 minutes as asked. All the bottleneck operations and issues are coming from other people working for external companies. So it's not because of you that the plane would be delayed in the end. That means that IF SN puts enough effort in making contracts with reliable and good external companies (catering, cleaning); the turn around of 30 minutes IS achievable without any irrealistic increase of workload for the cabin crew and with the same level of safety !!!

Interesting discussion, on the first official day of Brussels Airlines I've read it from the first till the last post... And with all my sympathy and respect for the crew and Brussels Airlines, I have to say that I was really missing the voice of an important player in this matter : the handling agent ! Except from a few quotes as the one mentioned above they seemed to be unexisting.
Who is cleaning, catering, fueling, loading, boarding ? Not the crew !
Who will have to work harder and quicker ? Not only the crew !
Who will be responsible for the delay in the end ? The crew ? The staff of the handling agent ? The managers making the contracts hopefully stipulating realistic goals ?
Who knows, the only thing I know is that teamwork is essential and a chain is as strong as its weakest link. We are all part of it and we all want to survive, the future will show...
Last edited by Deluxe on 25 Mar 2007, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Toaster
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 00:08
Location: Brussels

Post by Toaster »

Hi guys,

a little philosophical interlude...

I've never worked for an airline so I won't comment on ops, I'm sure B.A. staff know very well what they're talking about.

But, I live in Belgium...

In a free and very prosperous country, where I do what I want think what I want, come and go as I want and neither my health nor life are at risk at any time. Just living here makes me a member of the most privileged 10% of people on Earth.

This is why I will never join any union and with its inevitable whining about how overworked and underpaid we all are. I am suprised that airline staff who presumably sometimes venture out of their air-conditioned hotels on layovers in places like Africa don't seem to get a sense of perspective...

If what you value most is relaxed work hours, the same pay for everyone, and a job guaranteed for life, you are free - free - to go to one of the last societies that can give you this. The Socialist paradise of North Korea...

Millions - hundreds of millions - of people would sell their soul to be where we are. I really hope as much Belgian and European businesses as possible will outsource and delocalize the hell out of here. It is only justice that those willing to work hard get the jobs we don't seem to appreciate...

I would like to ask for a glass of Gueuze before you shoot me.


:( :pang:
Last edited by Toaster on 26 Mar 2007, 13:01, edited 1 time in total.

b-west

Post by b-west »

Ouch... a statement that won't go down well in this over syndicalized country. I wouldn't see things so black and white. Unions certainly have their function. But I suppose that too many of the unions are still stuck in the 19th century, thinking they're protecting the proletariat against the evil bourgeois masters.

Making the jump to the 21st century, where social protection is further reaching than ever, proves to be hard for these old organisations, this over reaction and bombastic call for action is just one way of how they demonstrate this.

User avatar
Bruspotter
Posts: 2008
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: (Antwerp/Belgium)
Contact:

Post by Bruspotter »

Hello

Sean1982

Yes indeed for RYR that isn't a problem. They can do everything quick quick quick , they don't really have to mind service. At Brussels Airlines the problem is more complex. Yes , indeed they have 30min , RYR only gets 20 to 25min. But the problem is that Brussels Airlines still has pax. who DO pay for more service (B-Flex) wich makes they can't just drop the little service they should get , concerning catering , cleaning , checks etc...


Best regards: Yannick ;)

User avatar
Avro
Posts: 8865
Joined: 28 Apr 2003, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Post by Avro »

Bruspotter wrote: Yes indeed for RYR that isn't a problem. They can do everything quick quick quick , they don't really have to mind service. At Brussels Airlines the problem is more complex. Yes , indeed they have 30min , RYR only gets 20 to 25min. But the problem is that Brussels Airlines still has pax. who DO pay for more service (B-Flex) wich makes they can't just drop the little service they should get , concerning catering , cleaning , checks etc...
Some while ago I've read somewhere that brussels airlines is aiming to have something like 30% of Bflex pax...

Now my question to you Yannick:

Do you really think that flying a 100 seater Avro (with 30 pax being B-flex) will be more difficult to handle than a B737 with 180 seats ? You don't need a lot of catering trolleys for 30 free sandwiches, do you ? ;)

Chris

User avatar
ElcoB
Posts: 677
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 00:00
Location: West-Flanders(Belgium)

Post by ElcoB »

Toaster wrote:Hi guys,
a little philosophical interlude
...
I would like to ask for a glass of Gueuze before you shoot me.

Well Toaster, I'm not going to shoot you, but I have some phylosophy for you:

I really like your avatar. It is designed well over 30 years ago as a cover for the elpee "Dark side of the moon" from a well known British group.
On that LP, there is a track called 'Money' .
I propose you drink a Gueuze, read the lyrics of that song and then reread your 'phylosophy' carefully. See the missing dots?

User avatar
Toaster
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 00:08
Location: Brussels

Post by Toaster »

Unions certainly have their function. But I suppose that too many of the unions are still stuck in the 19th century, thinking they're protecting the proletariat against the evil bourgeois masters.
I agree wholeheartedly. Trade unions have indeed had a very positive impact on society. Marxist movements freed children from coal mines and put them in school, contributed to the progress of civil rights and by and large restored the much-needed social and economic balance in the Western world.

In the 19th/early 20th century.

However, since then millions of people have been killed, imprisoned, and tortured in the name of those ideals. The in principle noble aim of pursuing equality and brotherhood has reached its limits long ago and every single Socialist economy ultimately went bankrupt.

The ideals are not dead. A lot remains to be done. But not here, not now. During the 10 minutes we fight about here, thousands of people die in wars and of curable diseases elsewhere. :(

sean1982
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Post by sean1982 »

I didn't say anything about dropping service, Yannick

A small AVRO jet can probably be cleaned in 10 min. INCLUDING security checks. In the mean time catering can be loaded. So they can be ready for boarding in 15 min. maybe 20 ? Still time to board and give a free chocolate and a newspaper.

Fr crew clean a 738 with security checks and 189 seats in about 10 min. and we are supposed to hand out menu cards before take off as well. Ok we don't get catered but that should not take very long anyway, and I can be done while the plane is being cleaned. Ok, no time for the crew to pause but that can be done during the flight. In FR the 4 boardings are the busiest times of the day in the cabin.

Regards,
Sean
Last edited by sean1982 on 25 Mar 2007, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
blackhawk
Posts: 1600
Joined: 20 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: Leuven

Post by blackhawk »

Ok guys, are we talking about "Marxist philosophy" or Brussels Airlines here? So please now back on topic! :offtopic:

b-west

Post by b-west »

blackhawk wrote:Ok guys, are we talking about "Marxist philosophy" or Brussels Airlines here? So please now back on topic! :offtopic:
I thought we were discussing union action at Brussels Airlines... and trying to understand how and why unions react the way they do...

b-west

Post by b-west »

Just got on the phone with my friend... his trip to THF was perfect he said. the plane left on time, the crew was wearing the NEW uniform and you could purchase food & drinks on board (at reasonable prices he added). So apparently the union action didn't quite catch on with all crew members, too bad for the bad publicity.

Nice little addition, apparently the free chocolates that are still handed out are packed as little red bolls, fun reference to the logo.

User avatar
Toaster
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 00:08
Location: Brussels

Post by Toaster »

See the missing dots?
Money, it's a crime.
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie.
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today.
But if you ask for a raise its no surprise that they're
Giving none away.


Yikes, serves me right! :) Upon re-reading I do sound indeed like a blood-sucking Margaret Thatcher or Dick Cheney :mrgreen: In fact I despise modern corporate culture :pukey: as much as I dislike unions... I'm an independent and screw them both... :mrgreen: only to be in my turn screwed by the taxman :tongue:

Back on topic... If the cabin crew contract says 30 minutes, the management has to respect it. :contract: If the management is backpaddling on legally binding promises, yes, by all means defend your rights. If F/As say they need extra time to ensure quality of service and security, I certainly tend to believe them more than a CEO who has only ever flown a desk. Managerial power, like the political one, need its checks and balances. By no means should B.A. employees be submissive, because blind obediance is the first step towards totalitarianism (f**k, why does social philosophy always have to spring up when I drink? :? :wink:)

I am also glad that B.A. staff are smart enough not to disrupt the actual flights. I'm not flying these days, but thanks anyway. I also understand that the day for the "mouvement social" (what's the euphemism in Dutch?) was chosen for maximum publicity of the malaise at B.A. OK, but am I wrong in presuming that Belgian and international passengers just don't give a :censored: about your working conditions? I don't mean to be callous but when I fly, all I ask for is safety, reasonable on-time performance, and a glass of water. I don't wonder how much you earn or whether you like your boss. BUT if you give me the impression that I might not get to my destination for political reasons, I won't hesitate a nanosecond to fly with someone else. That's why I think it was a huge mistake to make a fuss today when every effort should have been made to get some positive publicity.

I sure hope you'll sort out the problems fast because I like B.A. and don't want to see it go the way of the dodo. Best luck and keep flying :happy:
Last edited by Toaster on 25 Mar 2007, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.

Locked