Troubles at Brussels Airlines ?

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dodo.the.eagle
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007, 23:59
Location: Flanders

Post by dodo.the.eagle »

I remember Sabena was to set up those same 30 minutes turnarounds end of the nineties, and even with the large scheduled blocktimes, it turned out to be a mess, huge delays at the end of the day etc.

Now, with the very tight block times BA is now using (ex. THF 1.10 !!!??? block) you're totally incapable of making up some of the time you've lost during turnaround, so planned duties will only be possible for the aces of the air, the rest will work longer (for free) and I'm afraid several times a week !

To finish : a good thing that the unions stopped the managment in their way of negociating ; we've had already one time a gun pointed on our head whilst signing a CCT and I don't think many of us are prepared to undergo such a second treatment.

Greetz

foxtrot_lima_yankee
Posts: 145
Joined: 04 Nov 2005, 00:00

Post by foxtrot_lima_yankee »

Sabena is dead.
Brussels Airlines is born and has a different strategy, a more low-cost like structure.
And that s the best for now and the future, because the future is in the low-cost.
And they (the managers) know that.

About this discussion:
What about taking it straight between the 2 and making it a 35 minutes turn-around?
You won t find a job where you don t need to work over nowadays.
And everyone is gonna be happy that way.[/code]

teddybAIR
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Post by teddybAIR »

Although I understand the point of view or the personel when they don't accept these proposed changes immediately, I would advise them to accept these 30 minute turnaround times.
The airline industry is not what you would call a high margin industry, on the contrary, margins are very sharp or even non-existing. As a matter of fact, in the last century of flight, did the entire industry make 1$ profit...just a question.
My point is: in this caracterised by low margins, you don't want to prevent anything that can improve efficiency, certainly if it concerns measures that are already taken by most of the incumbents. This already happened in numerous companies and the vast majority of them either went banckrupt, or was taken over by another company, who implemented major programs to improve efficiency.

Just my 2 cents

EBBR
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004, 00:00

Post by EBBR »

Last week I have catched up a few rumours, can somebody confirm?

brussels airlines´ punctuality has been dropped with quite a margin this week, already an effect of the 30 minute rotations?

I also heard that lots of frequent travellers (platinum/gold) refuse to fly brussels airlines as no more business class available on Europe flights, correct?

Any news on the current union/managment discussions?

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Deluxe
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007, 17:44

Post by Deluxe »

Might be interesting to know the exact delay codes. Rotation? The fact that Brussels Airlines decided to insource a part of passenger handling at Brussels also has important consequences on punctuality! A quiet amazing decision knowing that outsourcing is the miracle word to any profitable company...

LX-LGX
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Location: ANR

Post by LX-LGX »

Darjeeling wrote:a Labour Court has deciced "in emergency" to condemn an employer because it did not respect basic contract laws. Simply. At least if we do read the same thing. So who has commited the biggest mistake now ? :roll:
On Friday evening, the appeal from Brussels Airlines has been accepted and approved by the Brussels Labour Court. The Appeal Court indeed stated today that there were not enough legal grounds (i.e. urgently) for a "trial in short notice" (kortgeding).

Thus no 5.000 euro's in favour of the unions, no obligation for Brussels Airlines to go back to the 40 minutes.

Result of the trial: the confidence between management and unions is damaged (in both ways, I assume).

The well known journalist Wolfgang Riepl (Trends/Tendances) makes it clear in his weekly comment that Brussels Airlines' aim must be an operational margin of 5%. "... The investors are not that high in love of their airline project... There must be profit by 2010, otherwise the basic investment principles will rule..."

Ducatibiker
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Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 00:00

Post by Ducatibiker »

EBBR wrote:Last week I have catched up a few rumours, can somebody confirm?

I also heard that lots of frequent travellers (platinum/gold) refuse to fly brussels airlines as no more business class available on Europe flights, correct?
Yes, this is correct. I am Platinum - former Circle. Did 2 million miles with Sabena, maintain Platinum level with SN but only fly now with Brussels Airlines when I have no other option. Rather fly Star Alliance with all segments in C and possibility to be upgraded in F on transcontinental. My feeling is that Brussels Airlines is not targetting the business frequent flyer at all ! And talking with other former Circle, I know I am not the only one not flying Brussels Airlines any longer. Some of them will refuse to fly economy to connect in Brussels to a C class to Africa. United tried this in the US with Ted....and had to put First Class back ! It is very sad as I met some very dedicated crew on board...business class was an opportunity to share a few words with them. I just received my new platinum card and the few words with it translate very well the complete lack of communication and interest from the new Brussels Airlines management.

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas »

LX-LGX wrote: Thus no 5.000 euro's in favour of the unions, no obligation for Brussels Airlines to go back to the 40 minutes.
Just to clarify:

the court has simply accepted the agrument from Brussels Airlines that there is no urgency to the matter, since the new schedule with the 30 min turn around was already public at the end of last year (on the website).

Obviously this makes you wonder why on earth there is still the legal obligation for employers to inform their employees through the normal channels of social (re)consiliation, since the judge apparently seems to think employees must just weed through the website of their company to see their future labour conditions, and more important even, airline employees should just know which flights are going to be operated by return crews (and thus operate under the new and illegal 30 min rule) and which are going to be done by split crew (2 crews with an overlay in outstation, for which the 30 min rule is of no importance).

Anyway, contrary to what you (and Brussels Airlines, but I think the 2 are closely linked) like to suggest, the judge has NOT rules on the legality of the decision of Brussels Airlines to unilaterally renounce the CLA's, but ONLY on the urgency of the fines for NOT sticking to the rules, so the matter of discussion will still have to be delt with in detail and there the case of the unions is much clearer as there is no room for interpretation like in their case of 'urgency': You violate the law if you unilaterally impose new labour conditions which are against CLA's of undetermined duration.

About 'urgency' and 'time constraint' in general:
Brussels Airlines punctuality figures for their first few weeks of operation are simply DRAMATIC! :oops: Despite the good weather, punctuallity has dropped from one of the best in Europe (high end of the 80%) to the obsolute bottom figure of slightly over 50% with scores of passengers missing their connections in BRU! And this is the summer season!!!! :evil:

LX-LGX
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Location: ANR

Post by LX-LGX »

I am the third party involved. The passenger. The one who has to be transported. The one who has to provide the money to pay the salaries (from the employees) and the bonuses (for the shareholders).

On 27th March, a judge has cancelled the 30 minutes turnaround. 1-0 for the unions. On 6th April, the appeal judge has cancelled that judgement. Equaliser, 1-1. That's it.

We'll only know if the 30 minutes turnaround is or is not against Belgian labour laws if the unions start (and win) a new trial.

The way some of the Brussels Airlines staff are talking here about both management, shareholders and even co-staff (at OPS) indeed worries me. As passenger.

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OrientThai
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Post by OrientThai »

...also heard that lots of frequent travellers (platinum/gold) refuse to fly brussels airlines as no more business class available on Europe flights, correct?
What is the problem?
Brussels Airlines is offering the b.flex product on European flights lasting less than 3 hours. This product is still offering the same advantages as a business class with priority at check-in, at security checkpoints and at boarding. Moreover you still earn miles, have access to lounges, have a decent service on board and have the flexibility to change your ticket free of charge. This product is also 30% cheaper than a normal C-class ticket.

So what do you expect more for such short flights a lie-flat seat?

fcw
Posts: 610
Joined: 01 Nov 2006, 23:20

Post by fcw »

OrientThai wrote:
...also heard that lots of frequent travellers (platinum/gold) refuse to fly brussels airlines as no more business class available on Europe flights, correct?
What is the problem?
Brussels Airlines is offering the b.flex product on European flights lasting less than 3 hours. This product is still offering the same advantages as a business class with priority at check-in, at security checkpoints and at boarding. Moreover you still earn miles, have access to lounges, have a decent service on board and have the flexibility to change your ticket free of charge. This product is also 30% cheaper than a normal C-class ticket.

So what do you expect more for such short flights a lie-flat seat?

The problem is that all the code shares go and that BruAir miles become useless outside BruAIr...

Ducatibiker
Posts: 236
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 00:00

Post by Ducatibiker »

OrientThai wrote:
...also heard that lots of frequent travellers (platinum/gold) refuse to fly brussels airlines as no more business class available on Europe flights, correct?
What is the problem?
Brussels Airlines is offering the b.flex product on European flights lasting less than 3 hours. This product is still offering the same advantages as a business class with priority at check-in, at security checkpoints and at boarding. Moreover you still earn miles, have access to lounges, have a decent service on board and have the flexibility to change your ticket free of charge. This product is also 30% cheaper than a normal C-class ticket.

So what do you expect more for such short flights a lie-flat seat?
-Unless you are gold or platinum, you may use the lounge FOR A FEE
-Which faster lane at BRU airport security ? I must have missed it
-Which priority boarding ? Non existant !
-Where is the middle seat blocked like other business class ?
-Quality of food ? sorry you will find on other airlines C class something else than warm bread, chicken and very young cheap French wine.
-Mileage collection: totally agree with the remarks I have read here...what do you want to do with them.

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