Airbus - Untennable Situation?

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 15 Mar 2007, 16:56

The following story is in today's "Monday Morning, Lebanon" paper. See:

http://www.mmorning.com/ArticleC.asp?Ar ... tegoryID=6

Post by **ElcoB** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:26

Untennable ?? Look around, see the facts... Airbus is news in China and Russia: see other news-threads.

The article has one thing right :

.... The balance between the political, business and technical interests in Airbus is “at the origin of its success” and needs to be preserved...

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:36

I just posted the article, I did not wirte it.

The article quoted former Airbus officials as:
"Jean Pierson, who headed Airbus between 1985 and 1998, agreed that the marriage between the private sector, with its shareholder-driven drive for profits, and the slow grind of subsidy-wielding state bureaucracies was unfortunate.
Airbus is an “unmanageable system” cursed by a “French-German rivalry”, he told the Echos financial news daily.
“From the moment you give birth to an unstable industrial entity split between [the private and public sector], you’ve got what we see here today”."

Post by **ElcoB** » 15 Mar 2007, 21:02

Well indeed, the tenure of the article is its all going the wrong way.

It isn't.

There are difficulties and troubles, yes.

But precisely the European context of private shareholders and political responsibility(state-ownership) will find a way out, since this was the way the whole succesful Airbus-family was born.

The European aviation industry, stimulated by state-intervention is a succes-story: remember: the next USA-presidential helicopter was designed in Europe and this very moment the US-army is taking the first delivery's of the 400+ light utility helicopters also designed in Europe.

Airbus is in a big dip for the moment, but everything is in place, even our politicians to work things out.

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 15 Mar 2007, 21:58

ElcoB wrote:Well indeed, the tenure of the article is its all going the wrong way.

It isn't.

There are difficulties and troubles, yes........................

...............Airbus is in a big dip for the moment, but everything is in place, even our politicians to work things out.

Is Power8 the process which will bring everything in place with the help of the politicians.. Or is there more that you know of and like to share..?

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 17 Mar 2007, 14:01

I copied this opinion from an internet news site; not fully my opinion, but I do agree:

"One more political situation affecting the Airbus order book is the status of the already-announced order from China for 150 A320 single aisle airplanes, to be built in Tianjin, China. Even though added to Airbus' list of firm orders last year, the contract has not been finalized. Germany has to be very nervous that if 320 production is transferred to Hamburg in return for concentrating wide body production in Toulouse, once the Chinese have built their own 150 copies, their costs will be far below the high wages earned by Germans, and all Airbus narrow body production could be moved to China. That is believed to be one reason why Germany has been resisting concentrating XWB production in Toulouse, France.

The French, in their desperation, appear ready to transfer strategic technologies to Russia and China, countries where the rule of law is not secure, and which could well become serious competitors, something which the most influential actor in the world's airliner markets recently warned of. France has for centuries been renowned for wily diplomacy. This strength may serve it well in finessing some of the major problems Airbus faces. But winning the battle of diplomacy could be a hollow victory, for real success is likely to elude a politicized Airbus in the long run."

I do think that such production shifts are a mistake in he long run.

Post by **ElcoB** » 17 Mar 2007, 15:14

Ah, here we go again, a round of Airbus- and European politics-bashing on arguments build out of thin air and unfounded insinuations.

The French, in their desperation...

Where the hell that comes from except the imagination of the writer.

...ready to transfer strategic technologies to Russia and China...

Shees...everybody, including Boeing, is doing this, it's called: competition.

Russia and China, countries where the rule of law is not secure,...

WTF : China is the largest business-partner of the USA and Europe. You only can do business when the law is secure.
Don't tell me the law is more secure in the USA: for a starter just aviation::arrow: Rendition flights and dont get me started about illegal wars.

...Russia and China...which could well become serious competitors, something which the most influential actor in the world's airliner markets recently warned of.

Hehe, that's the reason why Airbus is active in China: to secure his part in this huge market.
Besides: Boeing is doing just the same, even with more capital investments than Airbus. If you have the courage: some

figures about Boeing-China.

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 17 Mar 2007, 19:20

Can we stay on topic.. each time some articles about Airbus are posted as reading material some posters seem to go ballistic and always bring Boeing into the equation..

I repeat my question..Is Power8 the process which will bring everything in place with the help of the politicians.. Or is there more that you know of and like to share..?....

Post by **ElcoB** » 17 Mar 2007, 21:27

Zenfookpower wrote:..... to go ballistic..........
I repeat my question..Is Power8 the process which will bring everything in place with the help of the politicians.. Or is there more that you know of and like to share..?....

Well, I'm a bit tired of all these negative articles ......ballistics works two-ways..

No, I have nothing more specific to share except for this: The European context is complex: there are elections next month in France, the Trade Unions have their role to play (next to non-existent in the USA)...so in a month or two, when the dust is settled we will know more.

smacDC-10 · Post by **smacDC-10** » 19 Mar 2007, 06:56

Well, I'm a bit tired of all these negative articles ......ballistics works two-ways..

No, I have nothing more specific to share except for this: The European context is complex: there are elections next month in France, the Trade Unions have their role to play (next to non-existent in the USA)...so in a month or two, when the dust is settled we will know more.[/quote]

Typical emotional response when things look horrible for Airbus!

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 19 Mar 2007, 16:18

HERE another "negative" article

Post by **ElcoB** » 19 Mar 2007, 17:26

Zenfookpower wrote:HERE another "negative" article

Indeed, doesn't sound good for Airbus.
But

see this. and

MAS: No decision yet on Airbus A380 March 19 2007(Malaysian Business Times).

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 20 Mar 2007, 16:37

Breaking Up Airbus..?

http://tinyurl.com/2x3ntb

Post by **ElcoB** » 20 Mar 2007, 17:48

Zenfookpower wrote: Breaking Up Airbus..?

Nothing about that in the European press. Someone in the USA has a wet dream ?

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 20 Mar 2007, 20:19

Sorry ElcoB,

I should have given you this link http://tinyurl.com/2b9t3e older version..

Hope Timesonline.UK is part of the EU press..!!!

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 20 Mar 2007, 22:14

Neither article makes sense to me.

The Forbes article says EADS would benefit from splitting the commercial aircraft side (Airbus) from the rest of EADS (Airbus Military, Eurocopter, Ariane, etc.). The reason Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas was to reduce reliance on the commercial industry to hedge against downturns in that industry. That makes perfect sense to me. EADS needs to stay together for that very same reason.

The Times article says EADS might have to split along national lines. That might (and I say MIGHT) solve the political problems, but the individual companies would not have the economy of scale to compete against Boeing. That would be a stupid move. C'mon people! You can work out your differences without taking advice from journalists who think airplanes fly by flapping their wings.