Why not SN?

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PNC
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Why not SN?

Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 00:56

we can see on evry web site,airlines magazine,etc...that a lot of airlines getting new aircrafts,open new destinations (exp: OS,AY,LX,etc...) not only major airlines.
why not SN? all people said that we are a small country,so... I am not agree. look klm,OS and the rest

b720
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Post by b720 » 06 Oct 2006, 10:08

Even smaller...look at EMIRATES. when it started in 1985 population of Dubai was not even 500.000...They created a world airline and a world city in less than 20 years. We are the capital of EUROPE. WE surely can do better than SN...

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 » 06 Oct 2006, 10:27

b720 wrote:Even smaller...look at EMIRATES.
But they had no problem in finding capital...
André
ex Sabena #26567

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember » 06 Oct 2006, 10:54

sn26567 wrote:
b720 wrote:Even smaller...look at EMIRATES.
But they had no problem in finding capital...
Pftt !!
Always mentioning the exceptions !!
Airlines like the ones flourishing in the gulf are not the rule although I agree they are quite visible.

Lets compare with the comparable i.e. carriers operating in Europe, ruling out the the dominant ones
And let us regretfully acknowledge that Sn compares very badly in terms of business management with most of them.

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Post by b720 » 06 Oct 2006, 11:09

Why, I hope you do not think that capital is easier to find in the middle east... Emirates is not an exception.. Qatar airways..oman air... Air Arabia (lcc).. royal jordanian..MEA...these are all profitable airlines that found a place for themselves in their markets despite serious chalenges not faced by european airlines (security or lack of, wars breaking out almost each year,lack of qualified work force, inexistant markets that had to be created from scratch, inadequate infrastructure that had to be upgraded FAST, primitive banking systems...)..

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Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 11:11

let compare it with small countries like portugal (TAP), Austria (Austria Airlines), Holland (klm), Finland (Finnair), Swiss,and also......JAT who devlop a great network strategy.
The AVRO is the image of Belgium around Europe? waow... :roll:
and the codeshares are the image of our virtual national airline?.... :oops:

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Post by b720 » 06 Oct 2006, 11:24

as long as they make money..they can fly donkeys..who cares?? seriously they need to improve the service they offer...THE CLAIM TO BE A BUSINESS AIRLINE..self check in counters introduced last year in BRU years too late...WHY? Try to use them..U need to know the full number of your electronic ticket, while they claim that credit card or privilege card should be enough to check in.. BULL S..T.. I tried over a 100 times DOES NOT work.. Why don't they have a city check in office in BRU? at SCHUMANN for instance...Their flights are almost always delayed...I have to say thazt most LCC are more reliable than SN.. If that is the case maybe Ryanair or easyjet should buy it.

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Post by airbuske » 06 Oct 2006, 11:45

b720 wrote:Their flights are almost always delayed...I have to say thazt most LCC are more reliable than SN.. If that is the case maybe Ryanair or easyjet should buy it.
Almost always delayed ?
This is based on which facts ?

I think you never tried Iberia ?
They are almost delayed!

most LCC are reliable than SN ?
I don't think so !
Best regards,

Airbuske

PNC
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Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 12:07

b720 wrote:...THE CLAIM TO BE A BUSINESS AIRLINE...
yes, but going on the LCC, even the aircrafts will change confirution to 3-3 on the AVRO. meaby the idea is to lose clients? :wink: Mr Barrows is coming to SN putting his S...ideas and left the as a king. what kind of country is it here?

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Post by b720 » 06 Oct 2006, 12:19

I fly almost every week on SN..almost always delayed...We almost never leave on time.. same destination with virgin almost always on time. Yes Virgin express is more reliable than SN. As a passenger who flies every week I can confirm this... Try checking in using self check in machines at bru (sn machines) try calling the tel check in.. sometimes they answer the phone sometimes they do not.. This is not a business airline. It is much better than Iberia, and AZ that I do admit..but the point is SN can be the best in EUROPE I do not understand why they are not...They can start by considering their timetable brochure as their BIBLE.. 07:20 means 07:20 (or 07:25) not 07:55..That is the least I expect of them. Business class within Europe is horrid (for the price they charge).. not always do busines class pasengers get priority boarding...and they cram business class passengers, gold fidelity card holders, gold SN american express passengers at the same 4 or 5 check in counters at BRU..sometimes those are more crowded than economy..

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Post by sn-remember » 06 Oct 2006, 12:23

b720 wrote:Why, I hope you do not think that capital is easier to find in the middle east... Emirates is not an exception.. Qatar airways..oman air... Air Arabia (lcc).. royal jordanian..MEA...these are all profitable airlines that found a place for themselves in their markets despite serious chalenges not faced by european airlines (security or lack of, wars breaking out almost each year,lack of qualified work force, inexistant markets that had to be created from scratch, inadequate infrastructure that had to be upgraded FAST, primitive banking systems...)..
I fully agree with you
They did the hell of a good job !
Of course all cases are specific that's why I did'nt want to compare with SN.
Speaking of EK they indeed started from scratch with a simple mission: to develop a prosperous and convincing airlines business in oil-fast-running-out Dubai ..

And "Chapeaux bas Messieurs" this challenge was each year successfully fulfilled and renewed.
They found the initial capital at the impulse of the sheik of Dubai willing to make this business succeed and confident in the outcome.
It reminds me (in another register and at other times) of Leopold 2nd of Belgium continuously putting ambitious projects forward, some of them succeeding beyond expectations.

Will and confidence ... This is probably what's lacking most in Brussels at present.

And they demonstrated in Dubai that an accurate market analysis combined with true financial means to sustain the ambitions pays off.

Any business such as snba admittedly devoided of ambition is bound to poorly survive and eventually die.

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Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 12:32

sn-remember wrote:
Any business such as snba admittedly devoided of ambition is bound to poorly survive and eventually die.
totaly agree. SN has all the potential to be the best airline in Europe, Brussels is the capital of europe. when you speak with the snba people , the answer is always the same, "we are a small country, that's why we are small....." :oops:

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Post by Atlantis » 06 Oct 2006, 13:42

You can see this topic in a wider range. The same situation you can see at Thomas Cook Airlines and Jetairfly.

It is almost some years that both airlines have opened some long haul destinations. Thomas Cook Airlines didn't start a second line to Colombo and Phuket although the flights are always full and this for weeks and months in advance.

It's a tendence that exotic destinations ex-Belgium are flying high scores, but the travellers are flying with SAS, Finnair, LH, BA or AF. The fact is that the mother holdings in Germany are opening a lot of destinations and buy bigger aircrafts but for Belgium, just nothing.

The airlines; SNBA/VEX, TCB or JAF are not the only who made faults. Its the Belgian industrie, travelindustrie also. They used foreign airlines instead of the own airlines. F.e. Neckermann is using Finnair to fly from Belgium to Beijing. This means, travellers have to made a stopover in Helsinki to fly to China, this means also they lost a lot of time. It would be not a surprise to me when Hainan will stop flying to BRU due to lack of pax, loadfactor some weeks ago was 45%!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Belgian travelindustrie can easy fill some long hauls to those destinations if they want.

Maybe something to think about.

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Post by b720 » 06 Oct 2006, 13:59

I agree that the Belgian authority has a lot to do too...Most important is to generate more traffic to the country.. I fail to understand why this beautiful country fails to attract tourists, apart from the thousands of Dutch, Germans, and French..and the occasional Japanese passing by on their way to paris or Amsterdam.. Business traffic is great but there is a lot of potential to attract much more International tourists.. More North Americans, Latin Americans, and INDIANS and CHINESE, and more AFRICANS. SN Brussels can help but we need the ministries of tourism (all communities) to team up pay a few million Euros and launch an aggressive campain selling Belgium to the world. They can start by targetting two countries in different markets (example India and Canada) and wait a year to see the results..before adopting the same (and enhanced) campaign in more countries. This will generate a lot of new business to BIAC and to the country in general..

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Post by dre » 06 Oct 2006, 14:13

I dont agree.
My last ten flights with SNBA were all on time. I had nearly always delays with LH and AZ. It is maybe the destination you fly to .
I think it is good that SNBA is not growing like hell. Better grow slowly instead of making the same mistake than Sabena did.

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Post by Johan23 » 06 Oct 2006, 14:35

Don't forget that most of the time delays are caused by external factors (fe. ATC, handling, WX). Things every liner has to account for. I can asure you SNBA has good grades concerning leaving on time.

BRGDS,
Johan

dre
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Post by dre » 06 Oct 2006, 15:08

hi Johan,

I thought it was your mistake that they left late. :wink:
greetz

Dirk

PNC
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Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 15:10

dre wrote:.
I think it is good that SNBA is not growing like hell. Better grow slowly instead of making the same mistake than Sabena did.
not very agree with you, Sabena was another time, world change...if you are not a bit agressive on the strategy,beleive me you die very soon...SNBA prefer to be small without any strategy , are all the time afraid for the finance, but if you don't take any risk, you don't realize profit on a long term period. they are waiting, waiting and waiting. studying,thinking,etc... but today the world is running on 200% and airlines around SN can "eat" them very simply.
they have to finaly :shock: WAKE UP

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Post by Johan23 » 06 Oct 2006, 15:13

To expand you need MONEY. If they do not have anybody who wants to invest they are unable to expand. Money does not come out of the ground as in the middle east where they will be left with a far too high amount of aircraft. I wonder what that will bring in the (far) future...

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Post by PNC » 06 Oct 2006, 15:16

yes, money and the support of the authotities....we don't have that in Belgium.
look Alitalia, still have(indirectly) support of theire gouvernment. and i don't beleive that that will declare bankrupt one day

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