A319, A320, A321 achieves FAA 180min ETOPS certification

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 05 Jul 2006, 17:37

Read the article

Does the B737 have any ETOPS certification? I know that several years ago, Boeing was talking about it. Their biggest B737 customer, Southwest Airlines, was wary of that, because SWA didn't want to be saddled with extra weight or procedures which they didn't need.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 05 Jul 2006, 18:12

The 737 you mean

:):):) I think some of them are. Lufthansa, if i am not mistaken, used to fly one to the USA in an all business class configuration. If someone here has more info. please correct me

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 05 Jul 2006, 19:09

Sorry, I did mean 737. Just changed the post to correct that.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 05 Jul 2006, 19:59

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/199 ... 0914a.html

I know Aloha has been flying their 738s ETOPS 180 since about 2000. Nothing could be finer than sitting on a 737-800, Orange County, CA to Honolulu.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 05 Jul 2006, 20:03

cageyjames wrote:http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/199 ... 0914a.html

I know Aloha has been flying their 738s ETOPS 180 since about 2000. Nothing could be finer than sitting on a 737-800, Orange County, CA to Honolulu.

Forgot about Aloha

:):)

The US Presidential fleet has a pair of 737's they use on transoceanic flights as well.

DFW · Post by **DFW** » 05 Jul 2006, 20:52

I wonder why it took Airbus so long to get the A320 series certified then. It's possible Tony Blair would be flying in an A320 than a B737.

Bracebrace · Post by **Bracebrace** » 05 Jul 2006, 22:05

It's only the time limit that has been extended from 120 to 180 minutes. They were already capable of ETOPS operations up to 120 minutes. For the 737, only the NG series are 180 minutes.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 05 Jul 2006, 22:09

Bracebrace wrote:It's only the time limit that has been extended from 120 to 180 minutes. They were already capable of ETOPS operations up to 120 minutes. For the 737, only the NG series are 180 minutes.

Ah. I thought US Airways and JetBlue flew A320's that had some sort of ETOPS rating on flights to the Caribbean.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 06 Jul 2006, 01:20

TexasGuy wrote:Ah. I thought US Airways and JetBlue flew A320's that had some sort of ETOPS rating on flights to the Caribbean.

Oh for sure. Of course not every A320 is ETOPS certified. I know the US flight to Cancun sometimes cannot make the direct route from CLT when not using an ETOPS certified airplane. The frequent fliers of that route notice the change, believe me.

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 06 Jul 2006, 12:22

Privatair also has ETOPS on the BBJ (I think) for transatlantic flights.

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 06 Jul 2006, 13:05

How to get approval for ETOPS:

ETOPS approval is a two-step process. Firstly, the aircraft airframe and engine combination must satisfy the basic ETOPS requirements during its type certification. This is called ETOPS type approval. Such tests may include shutting down an engine and flying the remaining engine during the complete diversion time. Often such tests are performed in the middle of the oceans. It must be demonstrated that during the diversion flight that the flight crew is not unduly burdened by extra workload due to the lost engine and that the probability of the remaining engine failing is extremely remote. For example, if an aircraft is rated for ETOPS-180, it means that it should be able to fly with full load and just one engine for 3 hours.

In addition to operating aircraft which are appropriately type-rated, an operator who conducts ETOPS flights must satisfy his own country's aviation regulators about his ability to conduct ETOPS flights. This is called ETOPS operational approval and involves compliance with additional special engineering and flight crew procedures on top of the normal engineering and flight procedures. Pilots and engineering staff must be specially qualified and trained for ETOPS. An airline with extensive experience operating long distance flights may be awarded ETOPS operational approval immediately, others may need to demonstrate ability through a series of ETOPS proving flights. An ETOPS operational approval rating cannot exceed the ETOPS type approval rating of an airplane.

Regulators closely watch the ETOPS performance of both type certificate holders and their affiliated airlines. Any technical incidents prejudicial to an ETOPS flight must be recorded. From the data collected globally, the reliability of the particular airframe-engine combination is measured and statistics published. The figures must be within limits of type certifications. Of course, the figures required for ETOPS-180 will always be more stringent than ETOPS-120. Unsatisfactory figures would lead to a downgrade, or worse, suspension of ETOPS capabilities either for the type certificate holder or the airline.

Source: Wikipedia

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 06 Jul 2006, 20:34

Airbus is testing a new set of wingtip for A320:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... irbus.html

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 06 Jul 2006, 21:21

CXRules wrote:Airbus is testing a new set of wingtip for A320:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... irbus.html

Wrong topic, can someone move this to the Airbus A320 winglet topic?

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 06 Jul 2006, 21:50

Privatair also has ETOPS on the BBJ (I think) for transatlantic flights.

I think a lot of companies owns and operates ETOPS 737 to fly from the West Coast to Hawaï.

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 06 Jul 2006, 22:02

Stepha380 wrote:Privatair also has ETOPS on the BBJ (I think) for transatlantic flights.

I think a lot of companies owns and operates ETOPS 737 to fly from the West Coast to Hawaï.

That's what I just sayd a few posts above.

I guess the A319CJ could also get ETOPS approval if they needed it then? They both have fairly amazing range.

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 06 Jul 2006, 22:26

That's what I just said a few posts above.

I didn't know that between Los Angeles (one of the cities of the West Coast) and Hawaï, the ocean was called Atlantic. :jump2:

I guess the A319CJ could also get ETOPS approval if they needed it then?

An A319ACJ is just an A319LR with a specific cabin, the A319LR having additional fuel tanks. I think it is de facto certified with the others. It got it with the delivery of the first A319ACJ to a US customer (Pharmair) last month.
The A318 will receive its ETOPS 180 certificate by the end of the year, it is an important step for the A318 Elite (another product of the ACJ family).

Map of ETOPS areas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS/LROPS)

Light blue and lighter shade of beige are areas covered under ETOPS-120min rules.
Darker shades of blue and gray are areas covered under ETOPS-180min rules.
Dark blue and dark gray represents areas that are off-limits to ETOPS flights

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 07 Jul 2006, 11:09

I didn't know that between Los Angeles (one of the cities of the West Coast) and Hawaï, the ocean was called Atlantic.

I meant the Privatair part.

Or where you quoting me, but forgot to add the tag?

So does the BBJ have extra fuel tanks then? According to KLM, it's range is longer then the 763ER's range.