Airbus won't redesign A350

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:12

An announcement has been made that Airbus will not build an all new A350 to compete with the Boeing 787.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/busi ... _criticism

Market reaction will be interesting.

KT

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:19

bits44 wrote:An announcement has been made that Airbus will not build an all new A350 to compete with the Boeing 787.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/busi ... _criticism

Market reaction will be interesting.

KT

M&C News wrote:'We'll be meeting customers in the next few weeks and months to intensively discuss their suggestions for changes,' said Gustav Humbert, the Airbus chief executive, in the German city of Dresden.

If they consider changing things, it means they also consider building the bird

BeN

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 25 Apr 2006, 23:12

The statement by Gustav is somewhat confusing.

We're not going to build a completely new plane,' he said, describing the A350 as a good plane. Airbus would only alter its planes if it was convinced this improved the company's profitability.

seems they are not too concerned about listening to the their biggest customers! who have told them bluntly that a rehash of the existing design is inadequate, they want a clean sheet totally new design, able to compete with the 787.

It would seem that to successfully sell aircraft and make a profit it would be wise to sell what your customers want.

Only makes logical sense doesn't it

CX · Post by CX » 26 Apr 2006, 05:16

There is still light from that article, if the customers do prove that a brand new A350 is required, they will still do it.. but i am guessing that in the end, Airbus will spend some more billions to heavily modify the plane, heavily modify so it has a different nose, a different structured wing and a new rear end or something... i mean you have to agree that building something from scratch after all that they have done with the A350 now is a waste..

JoeCanuck · Post by **JoeCanuck** » 26 Apr 2006, 08:53

I actually think they might be doing the smart thing here, from a business standpoint. A complete redesign would take years. This way they get a product to market relatively quickly and cheaply. If they can price it low enough, that can offset some of the efficiency advantagaof the 787. They can make a few bucks while testing out some new ideas, ala the 737ng.

It's not like it's going to be a complete dog. It's better than the 330/340 series and they turned out pretty good.

If they end up with as little as 25% of the market, that's still a money maker. Somebody has to be #2.

CX · Post by CX » 26 Apr 2006, 11:11

True... I think more improvements will be found... And now save the bucks on the A340 replacement or something that will be completely new.

abishay · Post by **abishay** » 27 Apr 2006, 00:29

Thats sad to hear. i always wanted to see what the a350 will have in competition with 787.

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 27 Apr 2006, 19:03

As said before, redesigning the a350 will take a long time. It'll also take a lot of money. The a350 is already a moderatly succesfull aircraft now.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 28 Apr 2006, 01:52

We will just have to wait for a few years to see how all this plays out. Will the B787 be THAT much cheaper to operate? Will fuel costs continue to rise? Will the B787 be THAT much more fuel efficient? Will maintenance costs be lower? etc. We won't know the answers for certain to these questions until both are in the air for a year or so.

CX · Post by CX » 29 Apr 2006, 11:01

I think Boeing must be very confident that it will be relatively very cheap operate, a lot more efficient for so many airlines to order it, and it is obvious as the 787 is quite a bit lighter than the A350... Of course there is one unknown for the 787: will those composite material cause any problems? But again Boeing must be confident enough to offer it and say there will be no problems with it.. I am sure the 787 will win by miles, but whether Airbus has some secret development going on, who knows...

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 29 Apr 2006, 21:04

“I actually think they might be doing the smart thing here, from a business standpoint. A complete redesign would take years.” – JoeCanuck post of March 29, 2006

The smartest thing to do is not get into Airbus’ current predicament and listen to customer’s wishes years in advance of when push-comes-to-shove. The second smartest thing to do is to listen to customer’s wishes now and go back to the drawing board.

CX · Post by CX » 01 May 2006, 11:10

Either Airbus is really exhausted from the A380, or else if they still strongly refuse to do the A350 again, they MUST have some other plans...
I mean their A340 needs a replacement, but that 'completely new' plane might not be ready until quite a bit of time, and hence the A340 Enhanced for 2011.. The A350 is a response to the 787 to keep itself competitive and remain its commanality within airlines...
Airbus is not that ridiculous i think...
And for example, we didn't hear about the Boeing sonic cruiser until just years before its planned enter service date right?

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 01 May 2006, 21:56

If I remember correctly, a few years ago Boeing was in an even worse position than Airbus is now. So let's just wait and see.

CX · Post by CX » 02 May 2006, 08:45

Yes, I remember that it was even suggested that if the 787 was grounded, Boeing will be closed..
It only takes a secret or two and they'll be off again, maybe they'll get the Blended Wing body flying years before Boeing..? who knows..

CX · Post by CX » 02 May 2006, 14:14

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... +A340.html

Looks like they got to do something to get that 100 order! But what do you think? A full re-design i think is impossible, but I have no idea why they can't make a new wing (not just materials) for the thing and make it fly faster and more efficiently... Or are there difficulties to incorporate a new shape wing onto a fuselage? Or in other words, does it mean that only ONE wing shape will work for one shape of fuselage?

foxtrot_lima_yankee · Post by **foxtrot_lima_yankee** » 03 May 2006, 01:10

Hi guys and gals,

-The fact is, a wing is always designed after fuselage properties (length, diameter, weight,...) are clearly known. If I may give an xtreme example: You won t build F-16 wings on an A380...
-Afterwards, different wings are designed and tested in wind-tunnels. Wind tunnels are designed to reduce costs for testing wing designs, and are not always reliable to 100%, as a scale reduction always leads to loss of important information.
-The 787 will have a lower weight (supposedly), thus less lift will be needed, causing less drag and needing less thrust.
Do the new wing, new nose, new tail have a that drag-reducing effect?
Didn t they say in the '20 s aviation "that making a plane with the right parts gave by far better results than putting a plane together with the best existing parts."
Wouldn t a whole new plane have less better results when having all new features being put together? Wouldn t that break the "biological chain"?
Airbus has made the A350 out of an existing design, a design that has proven to be very efficient and safe.
If some airlines like the 787-adventure because of its dream-like aspect (which confirms the name of the project-Dreamliner for the dummies-), reasonnable airlines should go for the A350 as we all know that it will be a safe, efficient and thus, reliable aircraft ---based on a previously designed reliable aircraft the A330 Family.---

The whole stuff here almost looks like the A320 & B737 battle.
Boeing launched the 737 NG and americans thought that it would be the end of the A320. But for me and others the A320 is by far the better aircraft.(Advanced technologies, better cockpit, more capacity and thus more profitability, less technical problems, easier maintenance(remember the Helios crash, the problems on the Alaska planes and many others).

Let all not speculate but wait and see!

CX · Post by CX » 03 May 2006, 11:02

Well it is a fact that the 787 is by far lighter and thus drinks less fuel, and with today's oil prices any airline would gamble for the 787 being a reliable aircraft as well as significantly lighter.. Or else even an A330 isn't a problem, which is what Airbus said a few years back when they said a discounted A330 can already match the 787.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 08 May 2006, 15:17

Airbus looks to be designing an A350 that will beat B787:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... g+and.html

fleabyte · Post by **fleabyte** » 08 May 2006, 17:33

This 4th re-design claims better engines than the 787, but those engines could and likely would be adapted to the 787?

AL-LI is not used on any aircraft fuselage now, and will likely have a short life in terms of aircraft models?

The A350 "backlog" consists 40% for a seven month old "memorandum of understanding" for 60 aircraft from Qatar.

I am skeptical that the re-design will even "beat" the 777-300ER, and confident it will not even be on par with the 787 although it will enter the market 5 years later

I am very skeptical that airsub will deliver this 4th iteration for passenger service before 2013.

They face a credibility problem already about over promising and under - delivering. ie A340-500 performance, A340-300 introduction, A380 introduction and weight.

SAS_MD80 · Post by **SAS_MD80** » 09 May 2006, 00:08

I don't fully agree with you. After reading the article in Flight, it seems Airbus could have the right airplane to compete with both the 787 and 777, with a wider fuselage than the current Airbus widebodies and new engines in the 90-100lb thrust range, based on GenX and GP technology... That would leapfrof today's 773ER.

Aviation24.be

Airbus won't redesign A350

Airbus won't redesign A350

Re: Airbus will NOT build a new A350

Airbus WILL redesign A350

How does the A350 "Beat" the 787