Qantas and Cathay expected to ink deals

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bits44
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Qantas and Cathay expected to ink deals

Post by bits44 »

Both carriers are expected to place orders for a multitude of Boeing aircraft in the next few days, the combined orders may exceed 150 aircraft.


Inside sources have reported.
KT

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AirbusA350
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Post by AirbusA350 »

Boeing is offering something that is hard to compete with, the B777. Airbus can only match the A340-600HGW with the B777 and thats where the puny competition ends. Although the A350 is a great aircraft QF and CX are starting to give Boeing more space to offer better deals, from the first day the plans of orders were announced, Boeing was in the driver's seat. Airbus has nothing contending to display to these carriers, the only product that is worth their thought is the A350. QF should go for the A350's not the B787's, why? First of all they need to expand the seat capacity that is currently operated by the 762/3's. Although the B788 is not a bad solution it is not an idea for a strategic development in terms carrying more pax. Although QF operates 2 tech bases for both long-haul B767's and A330's I still think that QF should achieve fleet similarity by adding A350's, A350's are much more similar to the A330's, but the B767 were developed long time ago and they do not match the B787's in anyway. The 787's are new technology and the B767's technical base will need conversion which will be more costly compared to a conversion/addition of the A350's tech base that is very analogous to that of the A330.

Airbus has inflicted a large wound with the lack of success of the A340's, I don't think that the sistership of the A350 should be the A380, but a replacement of the A340. The chances of any further orders for the A340's are very bleak and the rate of orders from the past years has decreased substantially. This should be an indication to Airbus that something is going terribly wrong with its A340 program. I do not imagine a vacant spot in the market for the three hundred passenger aircraft market from Airbus. Airbus needs to be a little more hostile, in the sense of business and marketing, and it should commit more to a development of new planes that would endanger the position of the B777's, which will be long present on the market.

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CX
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Post by CX »

CX ordered 777s instead of A346s... Delivery starts 2010... Why not A346E???

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bits44
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Post by bits44 »

Cathay has signed a combination deal today, a mix of leased and purchased aircraft.
http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/about ... 09,00.html

regi
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Post by regi »

16 B777 and 3 A330.
No B747 NG. Exit of the program?

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CXRules
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Post by CXRules »

More coverage on Cathay's order: http://www.flightinternational.com/Arti ... +deal.html
CX ordered 777s instead of A346s... Delivery starts 2010... Why not A346E???
Ah, delivery starts in 2007 and ends in 2010 for the 16 B777-300ER, not starting in 2010. I thought we went through the reason why B773ER over A346E already.

Anyway, it's nice to see there're more CX fans out there!!!


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CX
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Post by CX »

I thought we went through reasons why CX may opt for 773ER over A346, but not the A346E...

The biggest most obvious reason now is that the A346E won't be ready until 2011... If otherwise, the A346E is a waste of time/budget. right?

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Post by jal »

and the quote from the article above ...
``It will be disappointing for Airbus,'' said UBS Securities' Horth. ``Most operators of the 777 have been very pleased with its performance'' because ``it has proven itself to be a very reliable long-haul aircraft,'' he said.
One should keep in mind that NOT A SINGLE aircraft has been lost since its introduction in 1995.

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Post by ryanCX »

So then I don't really think Cathay has plans to order any A380s or B747-8 anytime soon.
Now, they've ordered only 16. Would it be safe to say that most of those options will also be converted to firm orders once say... the 10th 777ERs has been delivered? As these aircrafts are meant to replace the 22 B747s and few of the 18 A340s that the airline currently operates. Surely just 16 aircrafts couldn't do all that although the process is gradual.
Considering B777-300ERs can fly directly to JFK, I suppose they will surely be saying goodbye to 3 of their leased A340-600s too. Does anyone know when the contract expires?
Besides the JFK flight, Cathay also might fly directly to Toronto with the 777s now. What other changes do you think the 777s are to bring for Cathay Pacific’s schedules?
And I just want to say that I think its a great move to be leasing some of the new aircrafts, considering that A330s are an ageing model and come 2010, the 777s will be... well, not as appealing as they are right now.
Lastly, the airline industry had been standing on the crossroads for a long time as to 'what's next?’ For a while, the Airbus' hub and spoke strategy with the A380s seemed to be the future and here, now orders like these have been proving them wrong.

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bits44
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Post by bits44 »


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Post by CXRules »

Cathay will surely dump the A340-600. I do not know their lease term with ILFC on these three aircrafts, but one of the articles said that it's a short term lease. I believe they will be replaced as soon as 2007-2008.

As for as network expansion, Cathay may start new long-haul routes with the B773ER, such as Chicago, Dallas/Ft Worth, Hononlulu, Milan, and Moscow.

Based on the number Cathay ordered, other than A346 will be replaced for sure, I think they will replace some of the B744 and A343 (assuming all the options are converted to orders), as well as for growth. The A330's will also be replacing the A343, possibly. I still believe Cathay will order the B747-8 for delivery after 2010 as A380 is too big for them. Lastly, they will have to replace the 30+ A330's eventually with B787 or A350.

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Post by jal »

The following quote from The Australian

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/co ... 49,00.html
The problem for Airbus is that it has been playing catch-up with a derivative design - albeit a potent derivative.

Initially, Airbus dismissed Boeing's 787 Dreamliner as "dreaming in Seattle", then Airbus CEO Noel Forgard described the 787 to German media as just a "Chinese copy of the A330".

Eventually, Airbus was forced to respond in December last year with the A350 - a significantly modified A330 with 787 engines and a composite wing.
shocks me.

It is a pitty that Airbus uses such a way of doing business .

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Post by lastrow »

I find the "Chinese copy" very funny :-D that's business! Do not forget: Forgard has once said that his idol is Machiavelli!

-lr.

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bits44
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Post by bits44 »

Jet Airways has also placed orders for 777's and 737's as well as Airbus a330's



http://www.business-standard.com/common ... ono=207211

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CX
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Post by CX »

The slow A380 orders is not so worrying, afterall planes like this will sell for years and years and don't forget an even bigger -900 version will come later... imo these beasts are best for short very high capacity routes rather than long-haul routes because the frequency of most high volume routes is so high already, it will take quite a bit of time for the market to grow that much to support A380s flying long haul routes everywhere...

What is more worrying is the slow A340/350 sales... An improved version has just been released for the A340 against the older 773ER/772LR but still airlines are going for the 777s! The A350 isn't clocking up sales anything like the 787 at the moment.. I don't know whether this is because of the lack of trust with Airbus or whether the planes are just not as competitive as the Boeings or whether it is because the new planes won't be ready until 2011/2010 giving Boeing a few year's advantage... Whatever reason it may be, they can't just sit there, I believe they must make at least 2 more variants of the A350 and actually make the A345/6E kill the 773ER.

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CX
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Post by CX »

The slow A380 orders is not so worrying, afterall planes like this will sell for years and years and don't forget an even bigger -900 version will come later... imo these beasts are best for short very high capacity routes rather than long-haul routes because the frequency of most high volume routes is so high already, it will take quite a bit of time for the market to grow that much to support A380s flying long haul routes everywhere...

What is more worrying is the slow A340/350 sales... An improved version has just been released for the A340 against the older 773ER/772LR but still airlines are going for the 777s! The A350 isn't clocking up sales anything like the 787 at the moment.. I don't know whether this is because of the lack of trust with Airbus or whether the planes are just not as competitive as the Boeings or whether it is because the new planes won't be ready until 2011/2010 giving Boeing a few year's advantage... Whatever reason it may be, they can't just sit there, I believe they must make at least 2 more variants of the A350 and actually make the A345/6E pretty much kill the 773ER... I mean by 2011 the 773ER would be some 6-7yrs old, if the new A340s still can't kill them, i don't know what Airbus can do... But to be honest, the new A340s doesn't sound any more efficient/low cost than the 773ER at the moment...

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CX
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Post by CX »

sorry for the double post ppl, i thought i pressed edit?? sorry sorry... :)

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Post by CXRules »

Here is another article on Cathay's order, very interesting at the end...
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=3272

As for the Airbus problem, their delay on A380 really hurt them. Not because necessarily on the delay itself but the way they communicated to their customers was quite bad. Emirates came out and said that the reason why they're not ready to commit to either A350 or B787 is because of the A380 delay, which Emirates was questioning Airbus' promises on A350. Airbus was not being honest and straight forward about the A380 dealy, and that pissed off many customers.

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CXRules
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Post by CXRules »

The last article, this one is interesting as well: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta ... r=20051202

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