Well this year has so fare been a nightmare for Airbus when it comes to Orders and market shares. After years of intensive marketing, negotiations and lots of larger ore smaller important Airbus seems to have a tuff year right now
The Boeing 787 came as a surprise and has so fare just about taken all potential orders. Despite some of these orders are pure political ones like those from Japan and China many others could have gone to Airbus.
The A340-500/600+A350-XXX mix offered to Air Canada lost huge to B777+B787, this might leave the way for a future new model of the B737???
What I am trying to say is that perhaps Airbus just fail to comply with there costumers on the A340 and A350 in favour to succeed with the A380-800.
Maybe Airbus grew too much during a short time and now facing the same type of problems Boeing has during the 70 and 80ties?
Just Wondering?
Good days for Airbus Over?
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Prometheus
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:00
Well I agree. I think you've said that quite well.
They did indeed focus a heck of a lot on the A380, so could have had an effect on the A340/50 etc.
Im also aware that BAe are in trouble with the RJ/146 etc. No more orders for them and a lack of use now. With so much competition in that genre of aircraft it may not be around for as long as we think?
Shame it is a lovely aircraft.
By favourite company personally is Boeing for many reasons. But Airbus have had a massive inpact in Europe with the A320/19/18 i believe.
BAe - Bring Another Engine
They did indeed focus a heck of a lot on the A380, so could have had an effect on the A340/50 etc.
Im also aware that BAe are in trouble with the RJ/146 etc. No more orders for them and a lack of use now. With so much competition in that genre of aircraft it may not be around for as long as we think?
Shame it is a lovely aircraft.
By favourite company personally is Boeing for many reasons. But Airbus have had a massive inpact in Europe with the A320/19/18 i believe.
BAe - Bring Another Engine
I do partially agree. AIRBUS had to concentrate on the A380 indeed. This project is not comparable with the B787 for example, because of its size. However, BOEING has a great year so far, but AIRBUS did the last two years very good as well. I would say it is more an up and down which applies to all competitions, independent which business it is. Nevertheless, I hope that AIRBUS will recover soon and gain some big orders then.
rgds,
A380-800 :thumbsup2:
rgds,
A380-800 :thumbsup2:
I don't think you can put all the blame on Airbus, some small part of Boeings recent successes can be attributed to them finally waking up and smelling the roses, they relied on the 737ng and the 777's to carry them through the 90's and its only recently they discovered they were being outsold in the marketplace.
However, Airbus and all its internal problems with leadership infighting, has caused them to lose sight of where they are going, and where they want to be. The Aviation Industry is in a constant state of change, and purchasers of aircraft have to plan ten years ahead to ensure they have the right equipment at the right time, no small feat considering the state of the Airline Industry around the world.
You can bet money that Airbus will be back competing in the market again, but they have to solve their internal problems first, which will not be an easy task. As well, cost overuns and the continuing weight problem with the 380 are diverting everyones attention, when they should be looking down the road, and developing new Aircraft.
The Airlines need both of them to be successful and provide competitive products, otherwise the prices will go through the roof, the last thing anyone needs is for any of them to go broke, the Aircraft Manufacturing Industry is basically down to two, and we need them both, to succeed and prosper, and I'm sure they will.
KT
KT
However, Airbus and all its internal problems with leadership infighting, has caused them to lose sight of where they are going, and where they want to be. The Aviation Industry is in a constant state of change, and purchasers of aircraft have to plan ten years ahead to ensure they have the right equipment at the right time, no small feat considering the state of the Airline Industry around the world.
You can bet money that Airbus will be back competing in the market again, but they have to solve their internal problems first, which will not be an easy task. As well, cost overuns and the continuing weight problem with the 380 are diverting everyones attention, when they should be looking down the road, and developing new Aircraft.
The Airlines need both of them to be successful and provide competitive products, otherwise the prices will go through the roof, the last thing anyone needs is for any of them to go broke, the Aircraft Manufacturing Industry is basically down to two, and we need them both, to succeed and prosper, and I'm sure they will.
KT
KT
Re: Good days for Airbus Over?
Not really true dude. Japan has been flying Boeing for decades, and have built boeing parts. These orders are not purely political but economically benefits. The more they buy from Boeing, the more they make money by building parts and by maybe better planes. Why did China purchase B787 and not A330? Isn't B787 far superior than A330, and maybe even better than A350. The reason China orders B787, I think isn't political at all. When it comes to purchasing planes, they try to pick the best with least political reasons.MrAirbus wrote:
Despite some of these orders are pure political ones like those from Japan and China many others could have gone to Airbus.
Just Wondering?
fftopic: but can anyone give me a link to the A350?
The biggest threat Airbus faces long term is its structure.
They only have 2 shareholders, and the major shareholder EADS has Co Chairmen and CEO's, because of petty rivalry between France and Germany.
Now this structire is severely impacting on the appointment of a new CEO for Airbus and co CEO for EADS. (So much for the industrially united Europe the French and German leaders talk about in public, but undermine in private).
Airbus needs to be floated as a separate Company with a wide shareholder base of mums and dads as well as large corporations, and face the rigor of a shareholder base that is risking their own money. In such circumstances they might even appoint an American to the top Airbus job! Problem then is, who would prop up EADS.
Ruscoe
They only have 2 shareholders, and the major shareholder EADS has Co Chairmen and CEO's, because of petty rivalry between France and Germany.
Now this structire is severely impacting on the appointment of a new CEO for Airbus and co CEO for EADS. (So much for the industrially united Europe the French and German leaders talk about in public, but undermine in private).
Airbus needs to be floated as a separate Company with a wide shareholder base of mums and dads as well as large corporations, and face the rigor of a shareholder base that is risking their own money. In such circumstances they might even appoint an American to the top Airbus job! Problem then is, who would prop up EADS.
Ruscoe
Too me there is no threat to either really, A few years boeing are at the top a few years Airbus are at the top ... Its all competition and the winner changes yearly ... neither will go bankrupt or stop making aircraft .
Too me the more intresting thing is who will join the boeing/Airbus domination of ac production. Will it be The Russians, Embraer, Bombardier or the Japanese.
I have been wishing for the great expertise in Italy be utlised to produce and aircraft that isnt for military purposes but so far we havent seen one.
The future once again seems bright for aviation and there will always be a need for travel in our skies. Heres to hundreds of years more competition between Boeing, Airbus and the rest :cheers:
8) S q u a l o 8)
Too me the more intresting thing is who will join the boeing/Airbus domination of ac production. Will it be The Russians, Embraer, Bombardier or the Japanese.
I have been wishing for the great expertise in Italy be utlised to produce and aircraft that isnt for military purposes but so far we havent seen one.
The future once again seems bright for aviation and there will always be a need for travel in our skies. Heres to hundreds of years more competition between Boeing, Airbus and the rest :cheers:
8) S q u a l o 8)
Here is my wild imagination:
If Boeing 787 failed, Boeing is doomed. But if Boeing 787 is successfull, especially if Boeing succeeds in building the whole fuselage with carbon fibre and the carbon fiber is proven as safe as conventional metal alloy then Airbus is in deep trouble. Boeing can apply the new developed technology for B787 to other models.
The other potential trouble for Airbus is the strategy of the company to build A350 derived from A330 to competete against B787. I don't know the specs about A350, but the recent orders of B787 from Korean Air, NorthWest, Air Canada may prove B787 is better than A350 maybe in terms of performance and maybe in price as well. Suppose Airbus can win enough orders for Airbus to launch this new plane, but A350 cannot compete well with B787 Airbus will have been stuck with 2 models that are slow money maker. Is Airbus in trouble? Let's say Airbus decided to design the whole new plane, is Airbus in trouble too?
If Boeing 787 failed, Boeing is doomed. But if Boeing 787 is successfull, especially if Boeing succeeds in building the whole fuselage with carbon fibre and the carbon fiber is proven as safe as conventional metal alloy then Airbus is in deep trouble. Boeing can apply the new developed technology for B787 to other models.
The other potential trouble for Airbus is the strategy of the company to build A350 derived from A330 to competete against B787. I don't know the specs about A350, but the recent orders of B787 from Korean Air, NorthWest, Air Canada may prove B787 is better than A350 maybe in terms of performance and maybe in price as well. Suppose Airbus can win enough orders for Airbus to launch this new plane, but A350 cannot compete well with B787 Airbus will have been stuck with 2 models that are slow money maker. Is Airbus in trouble? Let's say Airbus decided to design the whole new plane, is Airbus in trouble too?
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B744skipper
- Posts: 1509
- Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 00:00
Maybe Boeing will be the number 1 airline manufacturer in the years to come, but Airbus is far from doomed, but the good days are far from over. One could compare the situation of Airbus to that of Boeing in the late 90's, or early 21st century. They have some "old" aircraft in production, and the competitor is surpassing it with technologic superiority. So the sales for that aircraft are slowly going down.
But look at Boeing, they came back in the last half year and are making a lot of progress in renewing their product line and aggressively marketing their products. And when looking at Airbus, they have the A320 family and the A380 lines which will continue for years to come (when the A380 lives up to it's customers expectations).
And neither Boeing nor Airbus will come in a position that they will be "doomed". When one of the companies would go down, then it would have massive economic setbacks in the whole world (just think of the suppliers that would face major problems, and the loss of jobs in certain regions). So when shit would hit the fan of either customer, it is very likely that the government (or maybe the EU in Airbus' case) would jump into action to save the company.
The world out there is just to big for only one big aircraft manufacturer, and with just two big aircraft manufacturers left nowadays, we will see that once every decade (or maybe 3 to 5 years) the lead in the aircraft sales will pass from Airbus to Boeing or back. I don't see a third company enter the market that Airbus and Boeing control (the 100-500 seater market) because the competition between the two is already hard.
But look at Boeing, they came back in the last half year and are making a lot of progress in renewing their product line and aggressively marketing their products. And when looking at Airbus, they have the A320 family and the A380 lines which will continue for years to come (when the A380 lives up to it's customers expectations).
And neither Boeing nor Airbus will come in a position that they will be "doomed". When one of the companies would go down, then it would have massive economic setbacks in the whole world (just think of the suppliers that would face major problems, and the loss of jobs in certain regions). So when shit would hit the fan of either customer, it is very likely that the government (or maybe the EU in Airbus' case) would jump into action to save the company.
The world out there is just to big for only one big aircraft manufacturer, and with just two big aircraft manufacturers left nowadays, we will see that once every decade (or maybe 3 to 5 years) the lead in the aircraft sales will pass from Airbus to Boeing or back. I don't see a third company enter the market that Airbus and Boeing control (the 100-500 seater market) because the competition between the two is already hard.
As I already said, it's an up and down between Airbus and Boeing. The A380 will be a success for Airbus, but they really have to focus on the other programs as well. It is very impressive how Boeing is selling their planes the last few months and this is what Airbus needs to consider now.
rgds,
A380-800
rgds,
A380-800
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Prometheus
- Posts: 17
- Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:00
Indeed prom many many airlines are operating the 146's but they did go out of production quite a few years back.
Also about this airbus @doomed@ rubbish, Airbus have the latest airliner out and flying = A380 it is flying and going through tests as we speak the 787 isnt. Airbus are not doomed or in any trouble. People do tend to get over dramatic about things. What if when the 787 starts testing it hits glitches "will this be the end of boeing" posts will pop up everywhere.
Btw possible Us Airways/America West merger is being linked with purchasing A350s with financial help from Airbus.
8) S q u a l o 8)
Also about this airbus @doomed@ rubbish, Airbus have the latest airliner out and flying = A380 it is flying and going through tests as we speak the 787 isnt. Airbus are not doomed or in any trouble. People do tend to get over dramatic about things. What if when the 787 starts testing it hits glitches "will this be the end of boeing" posts will pop up everywhere.
Btw possible Us Airways/America West merger is being linked with purchasing A350s with financial help from Airbus.
8) S q u a l o 8)
I think that Airbus (and Boeing) will experience their ups and downs in the future. I think that in the immediate future Airbus will have problems, but in 5 to 10 years, after they build a A320NG, their orders will start to pick up again and they might even pass up Boeing again!
Both companies make great products and they will both be around for a very long time.
Both companies make great products and they will both be around for a very long time.
Onward and Upward...
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B744skipper
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- Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 00:00
heheheTis, but i was reading it on the a.net forums.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/936e1826-c565- ... 511c8.html
Is a link to the article but im not a member so I am not able to read the full article.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/ge ... n/2113602/
Is them all debating it.
8) S q u a l o 8)
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B744skipper
- Posts: 1509
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@Squalo, I have read it too, and although it would make sense for America US Western Airways to order the A350 as a B762 replacement and/or as an aircraft for expansion (and in the future maybe US' A330's), I do not see such an order happening in the (near) future. US Airways is just in a too bad shape at the moment, and are busy to work out their own financial problems, and their bad financial situation prevents them from ordering anything (I know several other airlines which are/where in bad shape ordered new a/c's, but US in is way worser shape).
I will start to believe this rumour (even if it is spreaded by US Airways themselves) when United Airlines will order 30 A380's!
I will start to believe this rumour (even if it is spreaded by US Airways themselves) when United Airlines will order 30 A380's!
Is the A350 that far away from being competetive to the B787? I have read that for airlines with a large fleet of A330/340s and facilities, pilots etc. to operate them, the upgrade to a more fficient model like the a350 would make much sense.
The positive mood for Boeing with their dreamliner after the success of the A380 is also political: German airline journals cite airline managers that they are pretty happy if Airbus and Boeing are at almost the same level of success. So, after the A380 party now they are going to look how well Boeings will fit again into their fleet.
-lr.
The positive mood for Boeing with their dreamliner after the success of the A380 is also political: German airline journals cite airline managers that they are pretty happy if Airbus and Boeing are at almost the same level of success. So, after the A380 party now they are going to look how well Boeings will fit again into their fleet.
-lr.