BRU 22/10/2021

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Jeremy De Winter
Posts: 661
Joined: 20 Jul 2020, 14:14
Location: Brussels Airport
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BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Jeremy De Winter »

Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02

Jeremy De Winter
Posts: 661
Joined: 20 Jul 2020, 14:14
Location: Brussels Airport
Contact:

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Jeremy De Winter »

Updated

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
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Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by sn26567 »

Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 10:00 Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02
Some delays might be expected as the EU discussions are not as smooth as expected.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Jeremy De Winter
Posts: 661
Joined: 20 Jul 2020, 14:14
Location: Brussels Airport
Contact:

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Jeremy De Winter »

Red = updates
Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 10:00 Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 CL60 9A-CRO
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135 145-209
xxxx-1400 SSG4A A319 OM-BYA
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-1545 AFP26 FA50
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02

Jeremy De Winter
Posts: 661
Joined: 20 Jul 2020, 14:14
Location: Brussels Airport
Contact:

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Jeremy De Winter »

sn26567 wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 11:05
Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 10:00 Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02
Some delays might be expected as the EU discussions are not as smooth as expected.
Could easily be with these planes. Also doesn't surprise me Poland left earlier.

maverick737
Posts: 20
Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 10:42

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by maverick737 »

Hello - any indication on the departure of the C17 USAF? This morning it was still on the ramp. Many thanks

sdbelgium
Posts: 5630
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by sdbelgium »

1340-1600 LSV L410 L4.01
1345-1550 KRF B461 ZE701
1515-1615 IAM F900 MM62345
xxxx-1530 JEF CL60 OHWIW
xxxx-1545 SAM B752 99-0004
xxxx-1545 CTM FA7X FRAFA
xxxx-1600 CL60 9ACRO
xxxx-1600 CL60 9HVFA
xxxx-1600 ECA C56X DCNOC
xxxx-1630 GLEX N900LS
xxxx-1700 LSV F2TH L1.01
xxxx-1700 C680 DCARO
1700-1730 HUAF A319 605
xxxx-1800 C25M FHSHC
1930-xxxx GLF5 N500J
2015-2100 MIM E50P FHYRL
xxxx-2040 P180 FHXPG
xxxx-2100 C650 HASCS

Xan
Posts: 107
Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 12:30

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Xan »

Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 12:01
sn26567 wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 11:05
Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 10:00 Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02
Some delays might be expected as the EU discussions are not as smooth as expected.
Could easily be with these planes. Also doesn't surprise me Poland left earlier.

1. Poland did NOT leave early.

2. Poland is in violation of fundamental human rights

Over the past years, the Polish government passed several laws to politicise its judiciary.These laws give the Polish government the right to interfere in the election of the judges of for instance the Constitutional Court, so that this court now is a puppet on demand court that passes whatever rulings the government wants.

Earlier this year, in a case filed against the Polish state by Xero Flor, the European Court of Human Rights (which is not a EU court but the court of the Council of Europe, a human rights organisation set up in 1947 comprised of 47 European member states including Russia and with among others the Holy See and Israel as observer states) ruled against Poland for violating two essential human rights
- the right to fair trial
- the right to independent judiciary.
and ruled that the Polish constitutional court is "unlawful".

Several countries no longer extradite anyone to Poland because of this.

The large majority of the people in Poland are afraid. When you no longer have independent judiciary and you no longer have a right of fair trial, you no longer have a democracy.

3. Lisbon Treaty

When Poland joined the EU, it signed the Lisbon Treaty, which in article 2 says: "The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. These values are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail."

This is so fundamental to the EU that article 7 describes an infringement procedure for violations of article 2 that can lead to the offending member state losing its voting rights and EU funding.

Poland has been serially violating the fundamental principles of democracy, has been politicising its judiciary, is violating human rights by setting up LGTB free zones, has prohibited independent (=not state owned) media etc.

Article 7, therefore was triggered against Poland. The procedure is ongoing.

4. Supremacy of the ECJ (European Court of Justice)

All 160 members of the WTO (World Trade Organisation) recognise the supremacy of the WTO Court (appellate body) to settle their disputes concerning their trade under WTO rules.

Every FTA (Free Trade Agreement) Deal on earth is governed by a supranational court to settle disputes arising from the FTA the rulings of which have supremacy over national courts of the members of the FTA.

Likewise, the EU is a union of sovereign members who decided to do something things together and set up a court to rule on disputes about these pooled EU competences. Everything else is national competence in which the EU has no say. Annexed to the Lisbon Treaty also is Declaration 17 that states that the ECJ (European Court of Justice) has supremacy over national law in EU pooled matters. This obviously is a crucial part of the EU, because citizens and businesses alike must have the legal certainty that EU laws apply equally throughout the half a billion consumer market in 27 member states.

Poland does NOT dispute this. The Polish PM has repeatedly and unequivocally reiterated over the past days that Poland fully supports the supremacy of the ECJ in pooled matters.

The Polish PM however disputes that the rule of law -(and thus for instance the independence of the judiciary and the right to fair trial) - is a pooled competence. Poland says this is a national competence.

The EU parliament (consisting of MEPs who are elected directly and with proportional representation in all member states every five years) however strongly disagrees and says this is a very essential part of EU member ship (see the aforementioned article 2 of the Lisbon Treaty that explicitly mentions the rule of law). The Commission agrees with the EU parliament, as does the very large majority of the member states.

5. All of the above was discussed today at the EU Council. As a result of today's talks, Poland has agreed to pass new laws to end its politicising of its judiciary and to restore the independence of its courts and thus to restore the right to fair trial, but it wants to do so at its own pace. If Poland does not do so, than the Commission will have no choice but to trigger a procedure to block EU funds for Poland until Poland realigns itself with key requirements of democracy.

Poland is entirely free to turn itself into an autocratic dictatorship, but it cannot do so while member of the EU. It will first have to leave the EU for that and is entirely free to do so. All it takes is to send a letter to the Commission that Poland has decided to leave the EU and it can leave any day after that but must be gone at the latest two years later.

85% of the people in Poland however want to stay in the EU, and they have been demonstrating against their government, both over its undermining democracy and its "on demand court rulings".

the Polish PM meanwhile said that rumous about a Polexit as "dangerous myths" and that the place of Poland is in the EU.

6. EU funds

It should be noted that when the 27 EU member states set up the Covid Recovery Fund, they unanimously drew up and agreed on the conditions to receive grants and loans from this fund, and one of the conditions they explicitly agreed on isthe rule of law. Poland agreed with this too. It meanwhile violated those conditions, so as per agreement co-authored and signed by Poland, it will not get any money from this fund until it meets the conditions.

Xan
Posts: 107
Joined: 10 Jul 2018, 12:30

Re: BRU 22/10/2021

Post by Xan »

sn26567 wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 11:05
Jeremy De Winter wrote: 22 Oct 2021, 10:00 Info from Flightradar24 and Radarbox:

xxxx-1014 PLF105 GLF5 0001
xxxx-1230 IRL252 CN35 252
xxxx-1300 HAF352B E145
xxxx-1300 SSG2 F100 OM-BYB
xxxx-1310 CEF2 A319 3085
xxxx-1315 LYF261 C27J 08
xxxx-1400 HAF253E E135
xxxx-1500 AME4527 F900 T.18-1
xxxx-2015 GAF813 A319 15+01
xxxx-2100 GAF807 A319 15+02
Some delays might be expected as the EU discussions are not as smooth as expected.
I don't quite understand what you mean. the EU is a union of sovereign members who agreed to do some things together and who lead this pool together, as such creating the largest single market on earth.

The board that leads the EU is the EU council, comprised of the elected heads of state/government of the member states. They belong to different political parties (libdems, christian democrats, conservatives, social democrats etc) and each has different interests.

While before they settled their differences with wars, now they do so with talks at the board that leads the EU.

These EU Council meetings are not Kumbaya My Lord session, it's 27 leaders each defending the interests of their own country, each doing so from a different political ideology, but all of them understanding that they need each other and that working together and reaching joint agreements lets them achieve far better results than any member state could achieve on its own.

Their meetings are prepared by the Council of National Ministers - if at this level there is agreement, the EU Council just signs it off. The issues about which there is no agreement on ministerial level, end up at the table of the EU Council meetings where the state/government leaders then work hard to reach an agreement.

The way this works is that in the first round, each of the Prime Ministers or Presidents of the member states first explains his opinion, while all others listen. Then, when they have all heard each other's take on things, negotiations begin to seek a consensus.

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