start a petition for legalisation airband scanners

[SN056M]

Hi all,
First of all,if this topic is in the wrong place here,feel free to move it.
Yesterday,when i was returnig to home from a spotting trip i was thinking of starting a petition to try to legalise airband scanners.As you all know it's still not allowed in belgium due to some stupid old laws.What do you think about it,should it be worthed to try such thing?
I know the belgian gouverment would probably not listen to us,but when you don't try you don't get nothing.

[sn26567]

In my view, it is a great idea. But I would wait until Belgium has a real government. The current caretaker government probably does not have the power to decide.

[Acid-drop]

Isn't it like some drugs ? It's not legal but nobody cares about it ?

[SpottairBRU]

Excellent idea!

Last year, I had some mail exchanges with the IBPT concerning this subject, and here is the answer I got:

La détention et l’utilisation de scanners est libre d’autorisation en Belgique cependant seules les fréquences publiques peuvent être écoutées (radiodiffusion, CB et radioamateurs).

L’écoute des autres fréquences (dont celles utilisées en aéronautique) est interdite en application de l’article 41 de la loi du 13 juin 2005.

La détention d’un scanner programmé sur ces fréquences peut entraîné la saisie immédiate de celui-ci (article 147 de la loi du 13 juin 2005) et son détenteur peut être condamné aux peine et amendes prévues à l’article 145 de la loi du 13 juin 2005.

Il n’existe pas de réglementation européenne à ce sujet, chaque état membre peut fixer ses propres conditions d’écoute.

For those who do not understand French, here are the key points:

- In Belgium, we are free to have and use scanners... but only to listen to public frequencies;
- Listening to other frequencies (amongst them the aeronautics ones) is forbidden;
- Having a scanner on which these frequencies are programmed could lead to an immediate confiscation of the device, and to some fine or/and jail time (I looked at it at the time and don't remember the exact amount / duration);
- There is no European Rule, each Member State can have its own legislation.


I know that many members are aware of what is above, however this could be kept as a warning for foreigners coming to spot in our country. That is the theory of course... and I won't discuss on what happens in practice on a public forum

If any petition is launched, count me in to support it!

[appel]

isn't it legal to use a scanner on the aeronautical frequencies when you have a radiolicense?
that's what my communications teacher in school told me (integrated ATPL)

[SN056M]

Isn't it like some drugs ? It's not legal but nobody cares about it ?

I Know,but i would feel a lot better when i don't have to hide the scanner when police vehicles driving by when i'm spotting in bru for example...
So...i think i got support from some of you here.I could start a petition already and let people sign as much as possible,in the meanwhile we wait for a new gouverment...hehe..The longer that takes the more people can sign....

[Megaman]

I used to have a small kind of radio that I could hear plane conversations on. Is this an airplane scanner? I bought it in a usual electronics shop in the UK about 25 years back and didn't know it was illeagle. I've been using it plenty of times to listen to the planes on approach over my house when I was young.

[Airbus A330]

You may also count on my signature.

I am also fed up to run to switch off and hide my Maycom in my rucksack each time the police is coming...

[hvs89]

I'm not convinced that kind of unscrupulous statements on a public forum would count in our favour...

[SN056M]

Hmm...only 8 reply's.I thought you spotters would be much more enthousiast about this....

[ggmeese]

A 9th one Cheers - Gerald

[tolipanebas]

isn't it legal to use a scanner on the aeronautical frequencies when you have a radiolicense?
that's what my communications teacher in school told me (integrated ATPL)

That's correct.

As the BIPT reply clearly shows, you may own a scanner all right, but you may not use it to listen in to any sort of private communication between 2 other persons (on the airband or any other band in fact), as that is a violation of privacy laws, UNLESS you have a radio license, as that includes taking an oath of secrecy which will forbid you to disclose anything you've heard that wasn't destined for you.

Look at it this way: spotters may think they should be given the 'right' to listen in to conversations between ATC and pilots for the sake of their hobby, but how would they feel when somebody would be wanting to listen in on their mobile phone conversations or check their e-mails for instance, just because that happens to be his hobby?

I think it is fine as it is now. No need to 'legalize' it. Besides, it's not like the police is heavily enforcing the law at BRU or any other airport, is it?
Just do it discretely and nobody will bother, but don't stand there at RWY02 with the scanner at full volume either.
You may not feel like it, but you're actually doing the same as if you're fishing somebody's letterbox empty and reading all his post!

[DeltaWiskey]

Totally agree with tolipanebas. If you want to use it legally, attain a radio license, no big deal (imo) and it is valid lifelong. (Although I'm not sure how it is regulated in BE with the LPE nowadays...)

[afterburner]

If any petition is launched, count me in to support it!

+ 1

[Devon Rex]

Look at it this way: spotters may think they should be given the 'right' to listen in to conversations between ATC and pilots for the sake of their hobby, but how would they feel when somebody would be wanting to listen in on their mobile phone conversations or check their e-mails for instance, just because that happens to be his hobby?

I got your point there, but I don't think you can compare it... when reading mail you know who they were sent to and came from. Listening to a scanner is like listening to the radio imo. And even then... for the radio you know who presents the program But listening to a scanner is just like listening to words imo. Without knowing who is speaking. It's pure information imo, nothing more to it.

I also wonder why (compared to our neighbour countries) only Belgium is keeping it "illegal"... why do The Netherlands allow it for example and we don't? Simply legal reasons I presume?

[arianne]

isn't it legal to use a scanner on the aeronautical frequencies when you have a radiolicense?
that's what my communications teacher in school told me (integrated ATPL)

That's correct.

As the BIPT reply clearly shows, you may own a scanner all right, but you may not use it to listen in to any sort of private communication between 2 other persons (on the airband or any other band in fact), as that is a violation of privacy laws, UNLESS you have a radio license, as that includes taking an oath of secrecy which will forbid you to disclose anything you've heard that wasn't destined for you.

Look at it this way: spotters may think they should be given the 'right' to listen in to conversations between ATC and pilots for the sake of their hobby, but how would they feel when somebody would be wanting to listen in on their mobile phone conversations or check their e-mails for instance, just because that happens to be his hobby?

I think it is fine as it is now. No need to 'legalize' it. Besides, it's not like the police is heavily enforcing the law at BRU or any other airport, is it?
Just do it discretely and nobody will bother, but don't stand there at RWY02 with the scanner at full volume either.
You may not feel like it, but you're actually doing the same as if you're fishing somebody's letterbox empty and reading all his post!

I am a private pilot and have obtained my radio licence from the IBPT. When they sent me the licence they attached a letter saying:

Votre attention est attirée sur le fait que ce titre ne confère aucun droit de détenir et d'utiliser un émetteur-récepteur de radiocommunication sans l'autorisation ministérielle requise (art. 3 de la loi du 30 juillet 1979 relative aux radiocommunications) ni d'exercer la surveillance de la circulation aérienne.

Therefore I cannot listen to ATC unless I'm actually out flying. On the other hand, one day as I was spotting in BRU and the El Al was about to arrive, a Jewish security employee exchanged a few words with me just to make sure I didn't pose a threat and noticed I had a scanner (it was on the handle of my bike with some volume on) and said that's great and that I must be very passionate about aviation, then left with a smile on her face.

And toliplanebas, ATC comms is a matter of professional life, while what you are talking about belongs to private life. I would bet no EC employee would feel embarassed if their (strictly) office-related e-mails were made public.

[appel]

I am a private pilot and have obtained my radio licence from the IBPT. When they sent me the licence they attached a letter saying:

Did you had to go to the BIPT by yourself or did they just sent it to you after your exams for your ppl?

[arianne]

I am a private pilot and have obtained my radio licence from the IBPT. When they sent me the licence they attached a letter saying:

Did you had to go to the BIPT by yourself or did they just sent it to you after your exams for your ppl?

It's all done by mail. I sent a request together with the proof of payment of the fee and I got it back by post. But we're veering off-topic.

[cnc]

listening shouldn''t be a problem as long as they can't transmit

[brubhxbru]

Many years ago dropping by BRU on my way from the UK to the Netherlands (Dutch registered car) I was stopped not far from Abelag for a security check. In the trunk of my car, in a bag, and most definitely not in use was a scanner. Despite working in ATC and despite my insisting that I was only transiting the country and (obviously) not using it, the nice Brussels Airport policeman confiscated it from me! Luckily for me it was an old radio and on its last legs. In any country you have sensible policemen and you have what we call in English "job's worth" policemen who will at no time use any common sense and apply the law verbatum. So be warned, it is illegal in Belgium and they can confiscate your radio.