Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

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Ecam
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Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Ecam »

The upcoming elections in Belgium could be interesting regarding the final decision where to base the A400M, which has still to be firmly decided.
Apparently Melsbroek is for certain Walloon parties no longer an option, or is this simply pré-election arm wrestling ?
French speaking socialists prefer Beauvechain, the liberals even want them at Florennes. 'Logic' would place them at Brussels/Melsbroek where the C-130s are now.
http://www.rtl.be/info/belgique/societe ... florennes-

Boavida
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Boavida »

Yeah, let's create another 'communautaire' problem... Good job, Walloon politicians... :roll:

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KriVa
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by KriVa »

Aside from all the election-involved political BS, I don't think the decision is anything but logical: EBMB.
Thomas

Stij
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Stij »

If Bru would be to crowded I would say Beauvechain, but given the current situation, keep them where they are!

cnc
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by cnc »

we have a huge empty airport at OST ;)
nah i'd leave it as it is right now

Desert Rat
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Desert Rat »

I think Florennes would be a nice place for the A400M. Plenty of room since the TLP left, the AFB is well located in a not too crowded area...ideal place for me...
Since the Navy obviously is in flanders and arty recently moved there as well...that would be a balanced option...

but hey... we still live in Velgium hmmm?

So, as usual ...AVV..isn't it?

b-west

Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by b-west »

Calimero complex, desert rat?

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quixoticguide
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by quixoticguide »

I suggest to move the Navy to Walonia ;) and the A400M to OST!
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com

teddybAIR
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by teddybAIR »

I find it foremost sad to read the lack of arguments of the ministers involved. They all seem to want to attract the 170m€ investment on a military base as close as possible to their electors. Besides the fact that I wonder whether having A400M activity near your living area is a plus (I'm not talking as aviation enthousiast now), I regret that they don't seem to take into account:

> what is logistically speaking the most favourable location?
> which location would require the least amount of investments?
> which location would allow smooth military and civilian operations with minimal interference/inefficiencies?
> what would happen to military staff and their working conditions?
> how do we minimise noise nuissance of the A400M's?
> Etc.

Some of the above criteria are in favor of Melsbroek, some of other military bases around the country. But I suggest that people start talking criterian instead of egoes.

And frankly, I live at about 2km of Melsbroek and I couldn't care less whether they stayed or left. I have a slight preference for them staying as I like the occasional military flight but it wouldn't make the slightest difference in my life or that of any of my neighbours if they left.

Desert Rat
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Desert Rat »

b-west wrote:Calimero complex, desert rat?
Absolutely not...just plain speaking...

Desert Rat
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Desert Rat »

quixoticguide wrote:I suggest to move the Navy to Walonia ;) and the A400M to OST!
I suggest you swap A400M and Navy in your comment. ;)

Desert Rat
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Desert Rat »

teddybAIR wrote: what is logistically speaking the most favourable location?
> which location would require the least amount of investments?
> which location would allow smooth military and civilian operations with minimal interference/inefficiencies?
.
Florennes no traffic jam on the ring, close to E411 and E40...

There's huge facilities left by the US air force from the "cruise" missile time and from the TLP time.

Close to Luxemburg, don't forget that one A/C will be operated by the Luxos.

To balance the military, and also bring back some added value jobs in Wallonia...

Simple no?

b-west

Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by b-west »

Apart from your last "communautair" points, quite simple indeed. I love more rational arguments iso "they're stealing our jobs/army"

(and do be careful when playing that boring old north-south card. Before you know it, one might argue that the chance of a wildcat strike is indeed much larger if the a/c were to be based down in the Ardennes)

teddybAIR
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by teddybAIR »

Desert Rat wrote:
teddybAIR wrote: what is logistically speaking the most favourable location?
> which location would require the least amount of investments?
> which location would allow smooth military and civilian operations with minimal interference/inefficiencies?
.
Florennes no traffic jam on the ring, close to E411 and E40...

There's huge facilities left by the US air force from the "cruise" missile time and from the TLP time.

Close to Luxemburg, don't forget that one A/C will be operated by the Luxos.

To balance the military, and also bring back some added value jobs in Wallonia...

Simple no?
I was hinting at a more balanced way of discussing this matter objectively, but I see that everybody will focus on his own strenghts exclusively driven by a personal agenda of favorites in terms of location...I would rather have seen a discussion as follows:

on location: Melsbroek is obviously the most central but as a consequence of being near the capital, noise nuissance will be maximised in such a scenario. Military bases are favorable when it comes to minimising impact on the general public, but the question remains which facilities and activities (eg: maintenance) would need to be decentralised. Etc.

Boavida
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Boavida »

Another question about the A400M: why do we have to wait until 2019, that is 5(!!) years from now, until we get the first Belgian A400M? What is the reason behind this? France already has them, Malaysia in 2015...

teddybAIR
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by teddybAIR »

because little belgium did not want to pay the expensive early slots in the production chain probably. By the way, in general it makes a lot of common sense to let others sweat out the child deseases and be a smart second rather than a fast first. Look at Spain: originally ordered 27 to be delivered as of 2016. They are now looking at selling 13 of them as the operational requirements have been reduced

regi
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by regi »

I am a easy going person. And as a tax payer, I do think about the costs.
But there are some facts.
Belgium does not have a gunship as the AC-130. Our proud nation could fulfill the last 20 years very few combat duties because of the lack of ...combat equipment ( OK, we bombed Lybia )

We develloped the C-130 for all kind of relieve flights.
But we did not do something to search and destroy terrorists.

My suggestion is that we devellop our own version of the A400 gunship. And than we exercise a bit with it. I propose Marche en Famenne or Elsenborn in Wallonia; and Leopoldsburg in Flanders. No space to try out Vulcan guns above Brussels, so Melsbroek is out of the question.

So the region that wants to have the A400 base should also pay for the development of a A400 gunship platform + organise target excercises above its territory.

If neither Wallonie or Flanders wants to step into it, I suggest we drop the A400 completely because the time has ended that we can afford to perform non military activities ( food drops, civilian evacuations ?) without any return on performance.

Election time ...

sean1982
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by sean1982 »

I would suggest: belgium. Who the f*ck cares if it is north/south.
Desert rat, you're reactions couldnt have been more narrow minded.

teddybAIR
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by teddybAIR »

sean1982 wrote:I would suggest: belgium. Who the f*ck cares if it is north/south.
Desert rat, you're reactions couldnt have been more narrow minded.
Indeed. Same Goes for those opportunistic politicians. The average Joe really does not care where these birds land

Desert Rat
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Re: Where to base the Belgian A400M ?

Post by Desert Rat »

sean1982 wrote:I would suggest: belgium. Who the f*ck cares if it is north/south.
Desert rat, you're reactions couldnt have been more narrow minded.
it is not narrow minded thinking, I just express my opinion on a subject called "where to base the A400M", that's all.

As previously mentionned,Florennes is a perfect location logistically speaking, close to major highways, far away from populated area, closer to luxembourg, they already have the infractructure and buildings to shade the A400M (although they might have to modify some of the hangar), the security is good and no one can see the military installation like they are visible for everyone in Melsbroek, they have qualified aviation mechanics available, a very long runway for all their training flight/exercises... I think BRU Airport is already congested enough to have a military operation on their runways. Do you think commercial operators like to be delayed for T/O or on arrival because the runway is used by the military?

For VIP flight and all the governement flight I can see the utility to keep an operation in Melsbroek, but for the heavy lift, paratroop and vehicules transport or other cargo operation, I think it would be better located in a less populated area. For Melsbroek,the place recovered from the military can be used for more industrial development and can bring even more added value for the airport.

Also for the noise nuisance above Brussels and surrounding area, a reduction of flight would be appreciated by the population.

it is only my opinion, if you don't give a f***, as you mentionned before...it's up to you...I respect your comment...but personnaly, I do care, and I would like to see this type of A/C's operated where it make sense(for me).

b-west, regarding your remark about wildcat strike, just shove off... because so far, I haven't seen any rational arguments coming from you so far on this subject.

And yes, i think also that having some more jobs in the Namur-Charleroi-Philippeville-Dinant area would be good for people already badly impacted by the economic down turn.

Over and out.

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