Work conditions at Ryanair

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maverik
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 15:29

Work conditions at Ryanair

Post by maverik » 13 Oct 2007, 14:14

Ryanair has trouble with the unions in Germany.
For more information, check the following link: (in German only)
http://www.swr3.de/info/Ausbeutervertr_ ... index.html
Have a nice weekend,
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fcw
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006, 23:20

Post by fcw » 13 Oct 2007, 15:07

Ryanair is very honest, they tell you: "We pay you to threat you like shit, so don't expect anything else."
Salary is VERY good so expect to work for it and you can't fly more than 900 hrs anyhow. Complaining about having to show a doctors certificate, when sick, is a bit over the top me thinks...

Air Key West
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Location: BRU

Post by Air Key West » 13 Oct 2007, 21:17

I think the article says that "the company demands that employees who report ill must be examined by a doctor appointed by the company".
Working time is paid by flight time (by the minute) and turnaround times are not paid for. (turnarounds considered as "breaks" for the flight attendants ?).
In favor of quality air travel.

FLY4HOURS.BE
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Location: Antwerp, Belgium

Post by FLY4HOURS.BE » 14 Oct 2007, 01:56

I've talked to Ryanair cabin crew working in CRL lately and they said most of the people staying longer are happy and that newcomers have difficult to keep the pace. It's a matter of getting used to it.

The salary is very good.
CRL based people get the nett salary of F/O's at B.air :D (excl. night-stop & extra's).

Many airlines don't pay the cabin crew for the turn-arounds, but mostly they don't need to do anything during the departure and the approach, so it's an even.
Fly4hours, making the path to airline pilot affordable to all

LX-LGX
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Post by LX-LGX » 14 Oct 2007, 02:24

I've learned German quite a long time ago, at school. But yet: enough to clarify some things:

- this story from this topic is going about about a stewardess;
- salary was 12,15 euro/hour, but only for flying time, calculated in minutes (Flugzeiten nach Minuten);
- turnaround, a normal duty time for cabin crew - certainly at Ryanair - was not paid;
- no medical insurance or social security was included in the salary;
- illness is not paid, but even then a Ryanair-appointed doctor has to accept the illness.

And what some her will not like (although, it's Ryanair...): im Arbeitsvertrag wurde ihr jegliches Recht auf Streik ausdrücklich verwehrt. Translated: the labour contract forbits to strike.

regi
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Post by regi » 15 Oct 2007, 00:10

I don't know about German law. But whatever contract you sign, if it is against the law of a certain country, that contract is not viable.
Secondary, you are falling under the legislation of the country where you are working. This means that personnel who made a contract with Ryanair under Irish or even Swiss law, but can prove that they were mostly working in Belgium, well, they fall under belgian legislation.
Once you can prove you work under Belgian legislation, it means that your employer must pay social security according the normal standards.
What that thing concerns about the appointed doctor: it means that Ryanair asks that in case of sickness that you are examined by a doctor appointed by Ryanair. But it does not mean that you can not be examined by a doctor not appointed by Ryanair. You understand ? I explain: you are sick. You go to your normal doctor and he says: 1 week home. Than you warn the Ryanair doctor and he does also an examination. Whatever he says, yes or no, you can stay home 1 week.
But it all depends under which countries' legislation you work.

I can imagine that many young employees of Ryanair are (very) happy about their employer. Untill something goes wrong. At that moment they realize the black holes in their contract.

If that salary of 12.5 euro an hour ( flying time) is true, you must be a masochist ( by doing many flights a day, the entire week ) or just plain stupid ( by not knowing that you are underpaid) to work for Ryanair. Any waiter gets much more with tip money, and has even better social protection.
I assume that flight attendants do have some education, are multilingual, socially,... They can earn much more, have better extra legal benefits, a car, holidays, in a international active company.
A dishwasher in my belgian town gets 12 euro an hour ( pre tax ) With some overtime, shared tip money form the waiters and black hours he has easely 1300-1500 euro nett a month. I have known a dish washer who maintained his entire family with 3 kids and wife on his simple salary.

It is very sad that I came to the point that I compare a Ryanair FA with a dishwasher, considered over here as , well, almost the lowest step on the employment's ladder.

What happens with a Ryanair employee who doesn't feel good about his job anymore? He must look for another job. But when? How? He can not get unemployment benefits.
If a dishwasher thinks " I want to improve my skills to get a better job" he asks his employer to fire him. If his employer doesn't agree, the employee starts to be so slowly that the employers has to get rid off him. The next day the man gets 60% of his salary, but can start a job training at a state sponsored programm which adds partially his income . After the job training of 3-6 months, this person immediately has a job with required skills + a job with future improvements.

On the other hand, dear Ryanair employees, I don't look down on you. If you are happy about your job, you like it , well, keep on doing it. Millions of people dragg themselves every day to their job against their will. It is not only about money.

To add a final depressive blow: ex convicts, uneducated , foreign people (but not illegals) can always get a job at the local garbage sorting plant. ( we wall it "the blue baggs") . They work in 2 shifts. They have between 1300 and 1800 NETT income a month. Don't say that it is not the same job because of the dirt and the smell: I think that if you must clean vomit as a FA, or clean the airplane between 2 flights, you are in the same position.
Except that those garbage sorters have better social protection, get a 13th month bonus, holidays, child support,...

loginas
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006, 00:00
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Post by loginas » 15 Oct 2007, 07:28

So if I read this topic correctly, it is better (better pay and carrier opportunities) to work as a dish washer or garbage collector than F/O at BruAir? :roll:

Pikey
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Joined: 29 May 2007, 10:59

Post by Pikey » 15 Oct 2007, 14:12

@fly4hours,


where do you fly? How much do you earn for the moment, all-in?

Regards,
P.

regi
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004, 00:00
Location: Bruges

Post by regi » 15 Oct 2007, 16:14

I don't know the salaries at BruAir, dear Kaunas.

But if they say that you get just 12.5 euro an hour flying time at Ryanair, than I say this is a very low income for Belgian people , with a degree , language skills etcetera.
Certainly a very low income if those people work under Irish legislation .

regi
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004, 00:00
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Post by regi » 15 Oct 2007, 16:16

and if you doubt my salary remarks, please check out the employment websites. Some of them have salary comparisons, like monster or stepstone or vdab.
By the way, Kaunas, if you are looking for better carreer opportunities outside Lithuania, I think with the new legislation in the EU, you might be able to pick up a good job here in Belgium, with a nett income of + 1400-1500 euro nett to start with.

loginas
Posts: 37
Joined: 09 Jan 2006, 00:00
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania

Post by loginas » 16 Oct 2007, 07:48

By the way, Kaunas, if you are looking for better carreer opportunities outside Lithuania, I think with the new legislation in the EU, you might be able to pick up a good job here in Belgium, with a nett income of + 1400-1500 euro nett to start with.
I quiet happy with my 2000 eur nett here in Lithuania. But there was time I was working in company which didn't have proper work compensation as a priority, I still hate companies like that - and BruAir seems to be one of them.
For the employees of such companies it is better to leave earlier than late, and it is better for everyone when they go bankrupt.

dre
Posts: 125
Joined: 12 Dec 2003, 00:00

Post by dre » 16 Oct 2007, 10:30

Regi


if you work in belgium for irish employer AS AIRCREW, you work according to irish leglislation, even if you are based in belgium and fly out of belgium.
Social security does not have to be paid in belgium...

Grtz

regi
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Post by regi » 16 Oct 2007, 11:02

Hi Dré,
this is surprising to me.
It is probably after a deal between Ryanair and the Belgian government.
Because the normal labour law still says that you fall under the legislation where you work. Whatever contract you have signed, that doesn't matter.

Now comes the tricky point: imagine that an unhappy employee of Ryanair claims that he/she worked mainly on Belgian soil, instead of in the air. This sounds quite understandable because most of the flights take just 1 hour, and the time on the ground can add up. And the employee is not paid for hours if not flying.
In that case, the labour contract becomes invalid. The employee does not even have to prove it . The fact that he claims it turns the guild matter up side down. In that case it is Ryanair that has to prove that this employee was mostly not on Belgian soil.
The repercussions of such a claim would be enormous. Ryanair would have to pay all social security, holidays, pension fees, according Belgian legislation.
There is a interesting article in another forum on this site about the outcome of the Marseille trial.
It stipulates exactly the matter I try to explain: it depends on where you actually work, disregarding whatever clever contract Ryanair let the employee sign.
Similar to the anti union clause: well, if a Ryanair employee becomes a union member, claims he is mostly working in Belgium, than his union will protect him.

dre
Posts: 125
Joined: 12 Dec 2003, 00:00

Post by dre » 16 Oct 2007, 11:32

article 15 nr 3 of nearly all double tax treaties between belgium and other countries stipulate the exeptional position for people who derive a remuneration from employment in international air traffic.
It is clearly written in the law, so even if you are more on the ground you have a special "statuut"

airazurxtror
Posts: 3789
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00

Post by airazurxtror » 16 Oct 2007, 18:44

[quote="regi"]Hi Dré,
this is surprising to me.
It is probably after a deal between Ryanair and the Belgian government.
Because the normal labour law still says that you fall under the legislation where you work. Whatever contract you have signed, that doesn't matter.
quote]

A judgement has been given recently (7 september 2007) by the Cour d'Appel of Mons (Belgium).
Three Ryanair employées based at CRL have been fired in 2002 after one year employment, at the end of their test time. If it's legal according to Irish law, it is not in Belgium, where the test time cannot last more than six months.
In effect, the Cour d'appel has judged that they had an Irish contract, as :
- the competent juridiction is that of the place of work
- the employees worked mainly in flight, out of Belgium
- the place of hiring is thus to be examined
- the contracts had been signed in Ireland
- they were paid in Irish pounds (it was before the euro) on an account at the Royal Bank of Ireland.
- they enjoyed the Irish social security
- the Irish law was thus to be enforced here


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