SN pilots on 07/07/07 ?

[Flybe]

If taking his own father on the jumpseat is any threat to safety, or irresponsible, then I absolutely cannot do anything, indeed.

The question is, where do you draw the line. So you take your father. And you also have a good friend, lets say, a highly respected doctor in London for example... Do you take him?

If pilots would have objective means to distinguish who to take in the cockpit and who not, that would be already one thing. Since there isn't, better to take nobody unnecessary in the cockpit.

you talk about safety by taking someone on board in the cockpit, but what does I have to say when you know that they are a minimum of two axe on board and sometime a weapon, you can start now to ask you if the pilot/copilot or other member of the crew take it and begin a fight (ok it maybe too much but it already happen in and airplane between a flight engineer and the cockpit crew with a hammer). So what do you choose a student/person in the cockpit or the other option?

As a passenger you take the conscious decision that you trust the pilots up in front. Passengers do not take the conscious decision to trust anyone that shouldn't belong there.

I have to say i'm amazed by the reactions on this forum. Sure we're all aviation lovers, but some people seem to forget the recent events. Oh sure, forget about security rules, to get your father, good friend, stranger who clames to be a student, etc. in the cockpit. YOU, as a pilot, have a responsibility towards your passengers, and you better start living up to it.

I repeat, i would not hesitate to file a complaint. And why? Because it is my right as a passenger if i feel my safety is not being dealt with as it should be.

What is it anyway, that you need to have your father, friend, etc. next to you. They only distract you from your job anyway (if you would be an office clerck, try to imagine taking your father with you to your office for a day)? You really can't miss them for a few hours?

Rant over, i go to sleep, tomorrow i take the plane. Pilots be warned 8)

Greets,

Pieter

[jaf217]

If I follow your opinion: may we still flight manually or does me need to push the auto land button to avoid any hard landing which may compromise your safety. And if you look video taken from the cockpit you should stop watching them because flight safety was compromised to film them so you shouldn’t be happy.
As a said before lets judge captain which is safe or not with the company rules in their airplane.
If it I not allowed you win and nobody will get into, if it is allowed just let people get into the cockpit, and enjoy….. People who will hijack the airplane does not have to ask to enter the cockpit before the flight just go near the cockpit door, push and it will often open from itself as it is not always locked….. So flight safety is not always as you think in an aircraft. As you are a people who is looking after safety I will stop here or you will never get into anymore because you will be afraid to know what is being really done. If you are not ok with susch rules of safety stop flying, take the car, bus, train ....

[JAFflyer]

What is it anyway, that you need to have your father, friend, etc. next to you. They only distract you from your job anyway (if you would be an office clerck, try to imagine taking your father with you to your office for a day)? You really can't miss them for a few hours?

Oh my god, I can't believe you used this comparison... The cockpit is noting like a plain office and lots of people just want to sit in there to see the buttons, the amazing view...
And if you want to help someone during their training, let their motivation level reach skyhigh (figure of speach), why should you ruin that for them.

Everybody should do their own job is what I say, if the captain says someone is allowed in the flight deck, it's his decision and with every decision he makes, safety is involved. So please, relax, sit back, enjoy your flight and don't look at the cockpit door...

[FlightMate]

what about this:

My wife (or father) is in the back, and taken into hostage (as with all the other passengers).
I'm asked to open the door, else they will start to kill the hostages.

I'd rather have my wife with me, land the aircraft and let the police handle the situation, following the procedure. Image what could happen if, too worried for my family in the cabin, I finally open the door?

Furthermore, a trusted person in the cockpit means a supplementary person able to fight on your side in case a hijacker tries to enter the cockpit.

[A390]

A refreshing and very interesting viewpoint about taking familiy in the cockpit! Indeed it could be safer to have family of the flightcrew in the cockpit instead of the cabin.
This is a point to be taken to the (international) security authorities.

[SN30952]

Saturday, 7/7/7, I'm flying from Brussels to Athens with Brussels Airlines.
The flightnumber is: SN3245
..... I'm trying to contact the pilots of this flight in hope to arrange a cockpit visit.

Well, Alexander, how was it?

[TCAS_climb]

A Captain would be in serious trouble if he accepted "fare-paying self loading cargo" (i.e. pax) in the cockpit for a flight. That's the law. Okay, it sucks, but it's there until further notice. Even before the paranoia days a pilot could loose his license if he did so.

Family in the cockpit ?
1. Where do I put my wife and 5 kids in a cockpit where in the best case there is merely one, maximum two, jumpseat(s) ?
2. What a wonderful source of distraction from flying the aircraft.
3. What a wonderful idea to stay strapped in a tiny area. Even economy class seats are more comfortable (there are a few exceptions of course).
4. What a wonderful way to slow the evacuation of the cockpit in case of emergency.
5. I'm sure the airline would be thrilled by the idea that they have to find a budget for training crews' family members (escape ropes), especially the large ones.

Coming to think of it, the cargo area seems more appropriate to me...
Nice try, but complete non-sense IMHO.



If a naughty boy knows the scheduling into such details that he can track both the crews but also their family members, I'm sure he's well infiltrated enough to smuggle almost anything in the secure area (i.e. ka-booom). On the other hand, when somebody threatens to kill an innocent pax if you don't do what the naughty boy says it doesn't make so much difference if it's someone you know or not. The F-16s will shoot you down anyway !

[FlightMate]

for info, in my airline, we are authorized (by the company and by the CAA) to take somebody in the cockpit, at captain discretion. Thus no unlawful event here.

About your last point... of course there is a difference between an unknown pax and a family member (be honest)!
The procedure in case of hijack is: keep door closed at all times, and land the aircraft asap.
Even if my wife is taken as hostage behind, I'd land the aircraft first, because I'm aware of the consequences of opening the door - well at least, I think I would act that way...nodoby knows how one would react in such a situation.

Now the above is only a remote possibility, and honestly, I don't think there is much distraction or danger involved by taking somebody I know well, in the cockpit, in every day flying.
And again, if one really wants to reach the cockpit in flight, it might not be as difficult as it sounds.

[A390]

Dear TCAS climb,

family in the cockpit:
-distraction? You do seem to take professional pilots for guys "playing a game upfront"?
-evacuation from the cockpit: evac of the pax from the passengers cabin is well trained/organised/regulated; evac from the cockpit is solely the responsability of the flightcrew; if they accept somebody, they must also think about this
-training to evacuate through the cockpit window??? What about the cockpit door?[/list]

[FLY4HOURS.BE]

for info, in my airline, we are authorized (by the company and by the CAA) to take somebody in the cockpit, at captain discretion. Thus no unlawful event here.

What airline do you fly for?

The procedure in case of hijack is: keep door closed at all times, and land the aircraft asap

And what if "Mr. student pilot" is a terrorist and already in your cockpit, seated gently on the jumpseat smiling with a gun in his hand? You will gently close the door if he asks you to do so, and if he's not too stupid and sees you are trying to reach for the transponder he'll blow your head off.

Every hijack situation is different and has to be dealt with accordingly. What is the hijacker armed with, what are his intentions, how many are they,are they taking hostages, have they bothered killing passengers or crew, what do they want, any recent news about similar incidents...

You should have learned that somewhere during your initial line training...And even if not, this is about common sense.

[FlightMate]

of course every situation is different.
But we are not trained to deal with hijackers. We are no negociators.

That's why the procedure is to land asap and let the negociators do their job.

Of course if we have the guy in the cockpit, that's something totally different. (I was talking in my previous post about a hijacker in cabin with hostages...)

by the way: I wouldn't grant access to the cockpit to any "self-proclamed" pilot student.

[FLY4HOURS.BE]

by the way: I wouldn't grant access to the cockpit to any "self-proclamed" pilot student.

Thanks

But we are not trained to deal with hijackers. We are no negociators.

That's why the procedure is to land asap and let the negociators do their job.

Ok but terrorists do not negociate.
Since 9/11 U.S. crews have received additional training for terror threats. Don't know the exact contents of the training, but it looks like it s mainly tactical.

I was talking in my previous post about a hijacker in cabin with hostages...

I agree but there are exceptions to that too (like there are to anything but I insist to mention it). A hijacker can threaten to make your airplane unflyable by opening cabin doors for example.
In that case you will need to evaluate whether you negociate or don't...

[FlightMate]

Terrorists' goal would be: enter cockpit - kill pilots - crash aircraft
What is there to negociate?

If they claim they would open the aircraft door, good luck to them...
And by the way, it's not unflyable at all. (although I never expererienced myself)

[luchtzak]

fftopic: for the last 2 pages!

@ Omikros: we like to read your trip report in the airline experience forum the moment you come back

@ others: please open a dedicated topic about the offtopic subject at your discretion