Charleroi Airport, the new Stansted of continental Europe?

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Hi all,

As you might have heard in the news, a new terminal is being built at Charleroi airport.

It will be capable of handling 3 million passengers a year and has a size of 28000 square meters.

So what do you think? Will Charleroi expand further and further or will it slowly stop growing and even lose some passengers thanks to increased competition from brussels national?

controversial question...

[sab319]

Well charleroi certainly has potential, but since Liege opened a new PAX terminal too and BIAC has beceome more competitive since it was sold to the aussies I think the future will be a bit harder...

[Humberside]

Is this terminal a replacement for the existing one?

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Really doesn't make sense to have 2 airports which are about 50 kilometers from eachother. So one day some politicians will start to have a bit of common sense, instead of thinking about being in the news talking about how many jobs he created (wonder if anyone has ever done some statistics about how many million does one need to create one job at Charleroi??? 8O )

So the walloon government will stop subsidising Charleroi Airport, Ryannair will get a good deal from brussels airport, and will move its operations to the real brussels (Sorry guys but imagine a tourist landing in Charleroi he might have panick attack thinking where on earth am I? Be assured you re unfortunately in one of the poorest regions of "old europe" )

Brussels might become the Dublin of mainland europe and Charleroi Airport will become the grave of some over-ambitious money wasting ministers...

Too much of a dream I'm afraid.... :dammit:

[Buzz]

Really doesn't make sense to have 2 airports which are about 50 kilometers from eachother. So one day some politicians will start to have a bit of common sense, instead of thinking about being in the news talking about how many jobs he created (wonder if anyone has ever done some statistics about how many million does one need to create one job at Charleroi??? 8O )

So the walloon government will stop subsidising Charleroi Airport, Ryannair will get a good deal from brussels airport, and will move its operations to the real brussels (Sorry guys but imagine a tourist landing in Charleroi he might have panick attack thinking where on earth am I? Be assured you re unfortunately in one of the poorest regions of "old europe" )

Brussels might become the Dublin of mainland europe and Charleroi Airport will become the grave of some over-ambitious money wasting ministers...

Too much of a dream I'm afraid.... :dammit:

Following you, we should close London Luton, London Stansted, London Gatwick, Frankfurt Hahn, Rome Champino, Stockholm Skavsta, ...The list is endless.

Charleroi does provide jobs in a region that has a high unemployment rate, and passengers landing in Charleroi just get on a bus, and the are in the centre of Brussels in an hour or so. I would not mind the half an hour extra. If you do, use BRU.

What you are proposing is a monopoly for BRU, wich would be good for BRU, but bad for the people who work at CRL and for all the airlines, who would pay bigger landing fees because they have no other choice but to land at BRU.

Last thing: how the hell would you sell the idea of transferring 3 million pax tot the people living next to BRU? Any politician proposing that would commit political suicide...

[sean1982]

My personal opinion is that CRL will not expand like STN and that the new terminal is a waste of money. Ryanair has not expanded the base in the last year and a half. While all other bases are getting new aircraft that are coming in constantly CRL doesn't get any. Ryanair lost a lot of money on CRL already. The big problem for RYR is that CRL is a state-owned airport and the reduced landing taxes are seen as illegal state aid. I think it is more likely in my opinion for RYR to move out than to expand.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Wow trying to find useful arguments against buzzes comments (no offense mate ) i fell on this very interesting open letter from virgin-express.

Although can't be 100 % per cent sure about the figures and facts given I will use them anyway:

"Therefore, the main cost difference between Ryanair and the other low cost carriers is in the areas where subsidies are given and the lower costs of secondary airports. In Belgium this comes to around EUR 30.00 for every passenger. The figure is so highbecause it includes not only the direct subsidies but also hidden subsidies created by essential services being provided free to the airport by the local region. ----) 30 euros!!!! Coming out of the walloon wallets for the lucky what 70% of people who are able to afford this :drink: massive subsidy!!!!!!

"only 65% of design capacity. Building additional capacity at Charleroi as is currently planned at a multi-million Euro cost will guarantee only that there will be excess airport terminal capacity in Belgium until the population grows to make demand fit supply" ---) Very efficient allocation of resources

Honnestly this convinces me even less about Charleroi! Don't know about all these airports buzz but stansted is definately not subsidised i'm sure! For one it's owned by baa (private company), 2 it's in the uk, 3 it is sufficiently big thanks to many many operators (even to new-york I saw) The only complaint I heard was that Heatrhow might subsidise Stansted... Nothing wrong with that because the british tax payer will not have to pay a penny

[Buzz]

Sorry Vinnie-Winnie, I misunderstood your post, I taught you were arguing for concentrating flights at one airport instead of spreading them.

Indeed it is true that BSCA is subsidized, but it all comes down to the way you look at it. A privately owned airport can and will do the same, so they can attract airlines and ensure profitability in the long run.
A public airport can't do that, but they would like to. Not as much to ensure profitability, but to attract new jobs (100's at BSCA) and to attract tourists who spend money in the region.
Of course not all people in Wallonia use BSCA, but the same is true for Hasselt: we all pay for the 'free' busses, but I bet half the people in Hasselt never use the busses. You don't hear them complaining, do you?

The letter of VEX has some good point, but you can hardly see it ass objective or accurate on all levels. It is written by a company to protect the company's interests.

It all comes down to 'what can a government do to promote/subsidize it's airport?' question. They have to do something, otherwise BSCA would be empty and they would be losing even more money.

And as a sidenote: I would rather have my taxmoney spend on a second airport, or free busses for that matter, then on a billion euro's shipelevator, or a billion euro's subway system nobody uses...

[sn26567]

Is this terminal a replacement for the existing one?

The existing terminal was built for 750,000 passengers and it currently handles more than 2 million. The new one will have a capacity of 3 million and replace the old one. Maybe 3 million is a bit too short-sighted when the traffic is already 2.2 million?

[Humberside]

Why nopt keep both open then, at least in the short term?

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Hi all,

Thanks for the many replies... :mexwave:

Just to tell you the truth I have been for the first time of my life to Charleroi Airport today! The airports wasn't too busy, and noticed a few things:

1) Seems like ryanair dominates Charleroi, with wizz trying to catch up.
2) Thought I'd see charleroi but instead saw concrete all the way from brussels to there.
3) Awful Terminal So yeah in theory would completely support a new Terminal.
4) Not too busy really for a summer day...

But But But

about 12 flights a day if I remember well, that's about one flight an hour! Not much really...


Unfortunately can't tell much more about it cause only went there to pick up a mate.

Oh Buzz in a way well yes I do indeed argue for one big airport concentrating on regular flights (Belgium is too small to have many many airports...) Feel like closing the airport would have positive consequences since public money be spent elsewhere. Also scratching my head to think of a tourist who goes to charleroi to see charleroi la louvière or Mons.

[Buzz]

Maybe 3 million is a bit too short-sighted when the traffic is already 2.2 million?

They are building a very flexible terminal, wich can be expanded on both sides if demand rises. I would say that is a very conservative way to spend public money. (read it in an airport newsletter I took with me in the summer of last year, it had plans and everything...)

[Buzz]

Oh Buzz in a way well yes I do indeed argue for one big airport concentrating on regular flights (Belgium is too small to have many many airports...) Feel like closing the airport would have positive consequences since public money be spent elsewhere. Also scratching my head to think of a tourist who goes to charleroi to see charleroi la louvière or Mons.

Not that I know much about tourism, but do you really think there is nothing touristic in Wallonia?
Just because of the cheap fares, some friends and me flew to Shannon a while back. Did some shopping, visited some things and stayed at a hotel. Thats €€€ the city would have never seen if people couldn't fly there for a few €. I'm guessing it might be the other way around as well...
Ever been to Nykopïng (in Sweden)? Never heard of the city before FR flew there, but now it is actively promoting itself as a touristic destination, in combination with Stockholm. Would people seriously consider visiting Nykoping if the flew into Broma or Arlanda?
Maybe I excagurate, but there is some thruth about it...

[danieln]

Folks,
Does anyone know where we can find more pictures of how the new terminal would look like? On the website of Charleroi Airport you can find some, but these pics don't give me a general impression.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Not that I know much about tourism, but do you really think there is nothing touristic in Wallonia? Maybe I excagurate, but there is some thruth about it...

Yeah U got a point there! But Yeah Imagine being Swedish, Italian, Spanish, Irish or Hungarian? U got the choice between all these countries? Which one would you pick?

And would anyone go to Charleroi Or mons instead of Brussels Or Brugge?

Really can't see no economic impact on Wallonia anymore!

[V-Bird]

However, Ryanair has planned to open a new "Hub "at Weeze Airport ( former Niederrhein ) this Terminal has an capacity of 4 milion a year... so Ryaniar has 2 hubs in lets say 250 kilometers...

[JetB]

Ryanair does not have a "HUB", only a base !.

And don't expect to much from a RYR base, look at chaleroi only having 3 maybe 4 aircraft.

[Ozzie1969]

Ryanair does not have a "HUB", only a base !.

And don't expect to much from a RYR base, look at chaleroi only having 3 maybe 4 aircraft.

Well, CRL is one of Ryanair's bases with the least number of scheduled flights...

[airazurxtror]

The new terminal at CRL is due to be opened in november, slightly later than previously forecast (september).
(according to a representative of BSCA at the "Holiday Fair" of Charleroi).

[Buzz]

Ryanair does not have a "HUB", only a base !.

And don't expect to much from a RYR base, look at chaleroi only having 3 maybe 4 aircraft.

Well, CRL is one of Ryanair's bases with the least number of scheduled flights...

There was a topic on here or A.net (don't remember that well) with a news article in it that claimed FR wanted 15 a/c based in CRL in al couple of years...
Once the new terminal is here, they will grow, that's a fact.