A340's and American carriers

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heathrow
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A340's and American carriers

Post by heathrow »

What is with the lack of A340's in American carriers? I think it would look nice in some of the liveries. Did US not have 342's, or am I incorrect? Anyways, I noticed that US had plenty 333's, UA has 319's and such, but no one has the 340's! What's going on?
Last edited by heathrow on 18 Apr 2005, 06:02, edited 1 time in total.

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B744skipper
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Post by B744skipper »

No, US did never have any A340's. Neither has UA had any A333's, but I guess you meant US Airways with that! :wink:

I can't answer your question for sure, but I do have my own thoughts on this. All I can think of is that there never was any need for an A340, because the airlines already had B763's, MD-11's and B772's to fill that gap. And when UA or AA already had B762's and B763's, it would have been uneconomical to introduce another type between the Boeings. US probably didn't order any, because they didn't need the range or capacity because they had the A330-300's.

And when the A340 came out many (US based) airlines were already looking out for the B772, which seemed to be a very promising aircraft back then (2 engines vs. 4 engines).

How are the operating economics when the Boeing 777 is compared with the Airbus A340? I guess that the B772 can handle more cargo?

There was a thread on www.airliners.net about this subject, but I can't find it anymore. Maybe you should search there, and can come up with the thread. :wink:

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MrAirbus
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Post by MrAirbus »

US Airways have an order for 9 Airbus A330-200(replace B767-200ER). These planes would have been under construction and delivered very soon but both the carrier and Airbus has but the order on hold until US Airways gets back on its feet!

When it comes to US carriers and the A340 I must say that there are no good explanations. The only reasons I can come up with must be the fact that the B767-300ER /400ER and B777-200ER(of course!) took the A340 market from Airbus.

In the late 90ties the B777 became too “large and heavy” and the B767 too old so airbus was able to sell some A330 to US Airways, Northwest and Air Canada. But rumours says; US and Northwest(40-50%) got those planes very cheep!

I think that POLITICS is a rather good reason as well.

Well that’s all I can say about it!

Have a nice WEEK END!
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MrAirbus
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Post by MrAirbus »

NOW I know one more reason!

If you look at the LOI and MOU sign in the end of the 80ties beginning of 90ties, there actually where some airlines that had made some commitments for A330/A340. Like Continental (Good financing from Airbus), TWA (Good replacement for the L1011) and Northwest (Good offer when they bought the A320).

MD11 of course came before A340 and took many orders even if they were small ones!

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Knight255
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Post by Knight255 »

until US Airways gets back on its feet!
Not gonna happen, they're in too deep. Politics definately have A LOT to do with who U.S. airlines order from. Look at American, Continental and Delta (all Boeing/MD made airplanes). (Oh yeah, AA is planning on replacing their A300's so don't count on seeing those much longer.) The A340 is well pared with the A330 due to the flight deck commonality so look to airlines here that currently operate A330's. U.S. Airways: never gonna happen as I said before, they have too many problems with operating costs. Northwest is using the A330 as a DC-10 replacement, but they've ordered the 787 :D so I wouldn't look to them for A340 orders.
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heathrow
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Post by heathrow »

I think That the 340-600/-500 would have been WAY better for NW since they have their asia network. In my opinion, the 330's will backfire on them. I don't know why, I just have a bad feeling about them. But they really did have to get rid of the DC-10's, as painful as it is.

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MrAirbus
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Post by MrAirbus »

Knight255 wrote:
until US Airways gets back on its feet!
Well, I didnt say that they would! Its just what Airbus sad when the order was put on hold!

By the way; AA = :twisted:

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Knight255
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Post by Knight255 »

By the way; AA = icon_twisted.gif
Too bad they don't have a smiley sticking out it's toungue!!! I'm gonna be working for AA at DFW (or the Flight Academy), so please don't bash my airline!!! On the subject of NW and A340's. I must agree that the A340 (or the 777) would have been a more suitable replacement to the aging DC-10 fleet. Perhaps available money or passenger loads were a factor.
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Post by HorsePower »

Knight255 wrote:I'm gonna be working for AA at DFW
I'm going :offtopic: here: I hope you will succeed. BTW I've heard that AA has a quite better financial situation than last year.

Regards

Seb.

EDIT: misspelling
Last edited by HorsePower on 19 Apr 2005, 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

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nwa757
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Post by nwa757 »

Northwest originally ordered the A340 in 1989, but switched the order to A330 and delayed the deliveries until 2003.

BTW: The reason NW's A320/A319s have CFM 56s is because NW thought they were going to get the A340.
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heathrow
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Post by heathrow »

aha! Makes sense now! They should have taken them 340's!!! ARGHH!!

boeing797
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Post by boeing797 »

From what I read B777 seems to be superior than a340 except the price and ETOPS. Emirates loves to have B777 but since the price is too high to make profit so they rather lease them. Although a340 is not really good compared to b777 but airbus can offer very competitive price to airlines so airlines can make money. I know one fact that the way Boing manufactured planes is costly while Airbus, since it's a young company, produces planes very effiently which enable them to offer large discounts. If airlines can figure out large discount can help them make profit they would go for A340.

Some members mentioned about polictics plays a role in decisions of purchasing planes. American airlines are 100% privately owned so it's hard to say politicians infuence them in making decisions.

Bottom line is, in my opinion, airlines in America don't use A340 just because B777 is better for them

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Knight255
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Post by Knight255 »

You don't think Boeing would offer a bigger discount to a Boeing-loyal customer??? (Continental, Delta, American) :wink:
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boeing797
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Post by boeing797 »

Knight255 wrote:You don't think Boeing would offer a bigger discount to a Boeing-loyal customer??? (Continental, Delta, American) :wink:
How can boeing can offer discounts as oftern as airbus when their manufacturing is not efficient ? It is understood that Boeing is putting effort to build planes faster and less costly.

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Post by HorsePower »

boeing797 wrote:I know one fact that the way Boing manufactured planes is costly while Airbus, since it's a young company, produces planes very effiently which enable them to offer large discounts.
You are quite right here, but you just forgot to say that 1€ cost 1.30$...

Regards

Seb.

boeing797
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Post by boeing797 »

HorsePower wrote:
boeing797 wrote:You are quite right here, but you just forgot to say that 1€ cost 1.30$...

Seb.
I think the increase value in Euro dollar is just recent. Airbus has been offering airlines discounts for a long time. I think
Correct me if I am wrong.

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Post by chunk »

boeing797 wrote:
Some members mentioned about polictics plays a role in decisions of purchasing planes. American airlines are 100% privately owned so it's hard to say politicians infuence them in making decisions
erm...you think so? I put this somewhere else before but take Continental as an example. Bethune went from Snr. Exec at Boeing to the CEO position at CO...and promptly cancelled A340 orders....maybe not politically motivated but not exactly competitive tendering is it??? I'm quite sure politics is at play.....especially with the current spate of 787 orders to companies that currently haven't a pot to p*ss in! And then there's Japan......lets not even talk about that one shall we? I'm not saying Airbus doesn;t do the same ..... its just naive to think politics ain;t involved!

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Post by heathrow »

Well, if a carier ordered the 340-200, I think they would have gone up levels. I think if TWA got them, AA would have updated to the 340-300 or 340-500 by now

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Post by HorsePower »

boeing797 wrote:I think the increase value in Euro dollar is just recent. Airbus has been offering airlines discounts for a long time. I think
Correct me if I am wrong.
Perhaps someone can confirm/infirm this but I think the €uro is around 1.25/1.30$ since one year, if not two. It partly explains why Boeing has so well recovered in one year. I remember 4 or 5 years ago the € was bellow the $.

However, it is true that Airbus tried (and succeed) to lowering the production costs, Boeing is on the way too.

Regards

Seb.

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B744skipper
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Post by B744skipper »

chunk wrote:erm...you think so? I put this somewhere else before but take Continental as an example. Bethune went from Snr. Exec at Boeing to the CEO position at CO...and promptly cancelled A340 orders....maybe not politically motivated but not exactly competitive tendering is it???
I do not want to spoil your day, but CO A340 orders where cancelled before Bethune arrived, because Continental went into bankruptcy and cancelled many orders then (at least the Airbus ones, for the A330/A340, just like NWA had).
After Continental got out they decided to buy lots of cheap DC-10 airframes to operate (expand) on the international routes. And after that Continental (or Bethune) decided to go for an all Boeing fleet, instead of ordering (again) some Airbusses.

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