TUIfly to remove the MAX designation from its Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, but only internally

86
7400

TUIfly will in the future identify its Boeing 737 MAX aircraft as “737-8” in flight plans.

That is the official name of the aircraft”, said TUIfly boss Oliver Lackmann to aerospace journalists from the LPC media network in Hamburg, as reported by the “Hamburger Abendblatt“.

Source: airliners.de

Earlier, Ryanair had already used the 737-8 200 name for the MAX aeroplanes it has on order.

UPDATE 26 Feb

TUI has confirmed to Simple Flying that it will use the name 737-8 internally. However, it says there will be no change to customer-facing naming of the plane, and that it will still be the 737 MAX as far as passengers are concerned.

86 COMMENTS

  1. That’s cute, you know the DC-10 had a faulty design, it was fixed now it’s considered one of the safest to fly, but please don’t let your ignorance get in the way.

  2. They can call it what they want. ‘MAX’, ‘-8’ etc… I’d sooner walk. I’ll certainly not fly with a company that attempts to mask this specific type of failed aircraft. What with wiring problems and debris/tools left in fuel tanks at the factory, as well…. Ryanair are contemplating calling theirs the ‘737-200’. I’ll not be flying on it…..

  3. We will all feel so much better after the name change. With that in place I presume that they don’t need to clean the fuel tanks of debris.

  4. If not in existence already, we need a international law (backdated) which forbids hiding or disguising the type of aircraft (including modification type in this case “max”). The max designation must stay. Joe public have a right to make judgments on risk. This aircraft , and perhaps this aircraft company, in its present incarnation is not safe in that the number of known issues relating to safety have increased, not decreased, and nothing coming out of the company appears to be addressing these actual issues. Mostly its about brand image less about the aircraft and potential passengers lives (and who it might fall on – in the event more fall out of the sky). Debris in aircraft spaces, let alone fuel tanks should be sufficient to ground all such planes until they are taken apart for a full inspection. As far as the “software issue” I am unimpressed that it took so long to apparently find a fix, if such has truly been found. I note nothing has been said about adding duplicate or triplicate external sencers related to this system (which is only needed in the first place as the plane design is compromised, due to the location and size of the uprated engines)…. Without back up sencers this plane type should be permanently grounded I believe.

  5. Do they really think that the vast majority of their passengers won’t know a 737-8 from a 737-Max? Patronising at best, utterly foolish at worst.

  6. You are all a bunch of spooks, the 737max was a monumental leap in automation, it’s unfortunate that such a correctable failure could sway public opinion. The crashes that were incited by the autopilot glitch were warned failures which were entirely correctable by the pilots and Boeing had even release bulletins to all 737-8 pilots explaining how to deal with the auto pitch malfunction as they prepared a final solution. Only unprepared pilots crashed their planes. None the less Boeing has since entirely corrected the software as well as completely revisited every other facet of hardware and programming that went into this plane With the help of the FAA. This will surely be amoung the safest planes in the air after it reaches the 50 million flight milestone like many other Boeing’s with less than .5 crashes per million flights.

  7. Because Mr Oliver Lackmann He like to Receive A Big Bonus end of the Year without thinking of us the passengers we pay his salary…is ok to give false information??? Maybe someone answer to the FAMILIES the lost the LOVED ONES…Because the Ex Boeing CEO was care about $$$%…Even 6 days ago Boeing discovered FOREIGN OBJECTS IN THE FUEL TANKS….IF BOEING USE TO MAKE AIRPLANE LIKE BEFORE WE WILL NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM TODAY.

  8. Ohhhh I see, so they want to hide and mislead people into thinking they’re flying on a safe airplane. Sorry to say but, once an airplane has crashed more than once, it becomes forever tainted and I will never ever fly a MAX jet. Boeing should scrap it, build a new, safer airplane and call it a day.

  9. @Liam. When Lion Air first crashed, there hadn’t been any bulletin, training or any mention of MCAS from Boeing. When EA crashed, there had been a bulletin, but the pilots followed the prescribed process and the plane did not respond as per Boeings explanation. Please familiarize yourself with facts before making assumptions. Pilots nowadays are very well trained and most of them are still humble enough to follow procedures even when they have tonnes of experience. Boeing put money over safety and it is still evident even today.

  10. Realistically it’s going to be difficult to avoid the 737max once it starts flying again. The airlines rarely tell you aircraft type in advance, it can change at short notice, and are you going to refuse to board if you recognise you’re boarding one ? Time to trust the regulators, they aren’t going to get this wrong and neither are Boeing.

  11. I fly with TUI every Christmas to Tenerife, not anymore, if it is MAX. I don’t care what otber people think in the above comments, if tbey want to fly on the MAX that is up to them. Don’t criticize other people like me, remember it is my life, so my choice.

  12. funny how some people consider this “bug” a minor issue still. Boeing still up to date cant get the issue fixed, because simply the whole design of the aircraft is flawed. the whole faulty system was designed to cover up a skeleton faulty design. They invested so much into the aircraft it is simply, too expensive to fail, even for Boeing. Yet they cant fix it. One retry and one more plane down and its bye bye permanently for this model.

  13. That’s very bad news and very bad practice that should not be legally allowed. B737ng and b737 max are not the same airplane. And as a consumer I must be able to tell and choose on which I like to fly. Or will I have to stop flying on any 737?
    That’s so bad for everybody: Boeing, Faa, flying pubblic: it gives an idea of how much is at stake. Airlines flying the max can not afford to loose it. Boeing doesn’t have a alternative.
    Nobody wants a airbus monopoly, but nobody wants to fly on a coffin
    Just scrap the dam thing and bye bye Boeing

  14. Changing a name won’t do anything……do they not realize it’s the same plane? I wonder if they took it for a spin?! Highly doubt it. Change the plane…….

  15. Very dangerous plane and the company only tried to cover their mistakes ot giving a shit if people will die in the process. They didn’t even wanted to ground the planes after the second crash

  16. That airplane is so screwed up in so many ways Boeing will never get it decertified. They might as well start trading them out for different versions.

  17. Whatever about sensors and computers isn’t the position of the engines the main design fault? Passengers should have the right to choose to fly/not fly in a Max/737-8

  18. None of you are in any position to make judgement. These affairs will be sorted out properly as always. You are all acting like kooks. Boeing knows what they are doing in this field, certainly more than any commenter on here. Sound like trump fools.

  19. Is that the same Boeing who tried to cover up a design fault responsible for the deaths of several hundred people ? The same Boeing who were aware of the software problems but rushed the plane into production anyway ? Regulators all over the world will be checking this aircraft as the FAA are too close to Boeing.

  20. Boeing is resting on it’s Laurels.
    Employees’ are abused, overworked and their alarms dismissed going back to the 1990s.
    PG&E is another can of worms.
    Fire both board of directors.
    The Boeing 737 Max is inherently unstable because the oversized engines were installed higher above wings shifting center of gravity.
    Software and 1 pitch sensor is a
    botched patch to compensate for irresponsible
    design and QA. Detroit learned lessons building
    vehicles in the 1970s.

  21. Instability in itself isn’t a problem providing the computer systems can compensate. Take the euro fighter typhoon, it was designed unstable in order to gain manoeuvrability but the computers keep it in the air. Boeing tried to do it on the cheap and got it wrong with catastrophic results. They won’t make the same mistake again because they’ll be finished.

  22. Are they going to let us know which plane we will be flying on when we book, if not I won’t book with them , and if they change the plane after we book to the 737 max (737 -8) will they allow us to cancel without losing our deposit?

  23. All of you saying that you will never fly on a MAX because it crashed are ridiculous. Almost EVERY commercial aircraft model put there has crashed at least once. The companies, in this case Boeing, will fix the issue with time. Refusing to fly on it and changing the name are completely idiotic suggestions.

  24. Really people? Are you all insane? The faulty software us getting fixed. The plane is an engineering marvel, just like the rest of the new Boieng Dreamliner family. The planes are grounded so that the concerns can all be dealt with.
    Will you never drive your Honda, acute, keep again because the airbag was recalled?

  25. I have worked as an engineer for over 40 years primarily on Boeing aircraft. I am not saying that there was not a problem with the “Max” but those pilots of the crashed aircraft forgot the basics of ANC. AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE. TOTAL DEPENDANCY ON AUTOMATION. Several other western operators pilots knew how to countermand the system

  26. To Ash Conrad. Your comments are not bad. However, the end comment about Trump prove you are easily swayed by fools on the left lying to you. For 3 years the left have proved to be liers. Yet, you believe. What does that say about your opinion about ANYthing? If you dislike the MAX fine. Keep your inacurate and biased ignorance to yourself. Remember: better quiet & thought a fool than to open your mouth & remove all doubt.

  27. Will not be flying on any 737 Max aircraft, which will be hard as I will now need to chose a new service.

  28. F117 stealth fighter now retired had 300+ sensors for stability. But they only had (1) put on the 737 Max to help the motor balance problem. (1) ONE SENSOR. If it failed or screwed up – nothing – no backup – no notification – just an airplane filled with people and loss of control. Not me. Add more sensors. Software WON’T fix the problem. I know. I’m an engineer – I work with all kinds of equipment and have for 40 years…..

  29. If renaming its name from MAX to 737-8 is to misled the public about thinking its a different model and run profit business, then they are hiding something… whatever the courts or the safety authorities may say, in my judgement it is a serious crime on their part, punishable not less than hanging until death for all those decision makers! If people knowingly fly in the max, then it is their decision but falsiflying and misleding the public into believing it is safe and making them fly on the max is definetely a big big criminal crime, better state the truth or put it down forever

  30. I, Dennis E Sullens 29 year’s in Aviation Quality Assurance 19 year’s with Boeing Retired will never fly a Max by any name, ever again.

    The 737 Next Generation is considered 50 times Safer at 0.06 crashes per Million Flight’s as compared to the 737 Max with 3.08 crashes per Million Flight’s according to:

    http:www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

    And the corruption at Boeing Quality Assurance is evidenced before the Max at Video below.

    FN08 continued.¶

    Uncovered: Boeing’s 737 Max relied on single sensor with history of problems – CNN Video¶

    4:11 min Video above Weblink.¶

    30 Apr 2019, Drew Griffen reports,¶

    CNN Uncovered: Boeing’s 737 Max relied on single [AoA] sensor with history of problems. …216 AoA problems reported to FAA since 2004, 42 Boeing AoA sensors resulting in FAA Directives for Boeing AoA sensors in 2013, and 2016.¶

    FN09: Quality Assurance Corruption of Boeing.¶

    image
    PREVIEW¶

    33:17¶

    Problems with Boeing 737 next generation with structural dangers …¶

    YouTube · richardperth2002 Perth¶

    Jun 12, 2011¶

  31. Until today all MAX’s are grounded. If it’s an easy fix it would have been done already. Maybe they will find more garbage in the tanks or an forgotten technician. MAX or 8 is not responsible for the mess. It’s Boing and this company fired the CEO with a sack of of money. That’s the real problem.

  32. You guys need to cool down , yes 737 -8 max had a rough patch but it will later turn out to be best single aisle aircraft. Most plane have few design issues , sadly 600 people who died in earlier 737 max crashes and pray for their to Rest In Peace. Peace out

  33. The 737 MAX was a development that was taken too far.The 707 way back when, had MCAS installed but I dont remember any crashes that were caused by it. The 737 was derived from the 707 as were the 727 and in many ways the 747. This aircraft was of the same generation as a 707 airframe wise but stuffing this tired old design with new avionics and more powerful engines was a cost saving decision that eventually would be found as a terrible mistake. Boeing marketing drove the development and sale of this AC and managed to convince everyone it was just the same as any NG or for that matter classic 737 so no extra training was required. As for FOD in fuel tanks, all that shows is that Boeing has a serious quality issue at the least or sabotage on the production line as the worst. It is a great company, but it is now time for them to prove it.

  34. You can make a rock fly if you give it enough thrust. That doesn’t mean a rock is aerodynamically sound or that we should fly on it.

    Those who think the 737 Max disasters were software glitches haven’t read enough. As far as I can surmise, two things brought those planes down. The first was fear of being overtaken by Airbus. The second was corporate greed. Both can be a positive force for competitiveness but someone at the top lost their way.

    I will avoid flying the 737 Max if at all possible. If for no other reason then to register my protest.

  35. Liam. No monumental leap by Boeing. Read all the facts. A 60,s designed plane with newer modern fuel efficient engines to rival The massively successful airbus 320neo family series. Engines that wouldn’t fit in the usual place on the wings so they were moved forward changing the whole flying characteristics of the plane.

    .

  36. Tony. The pilots forgot about nothing. Obviously people like you cannot criticise Boeing or you would be sacked like the whistle blowers who told the truth about the Dreamliner project. Remember the day when they had a conference then allowed all you sheep to have a look outside the building at this new plane which was not even a real plane and showing it off for all the world to see.

  37. Whilst it’s true that several types of commercial aircraft have suffered issues which were subsequently sorted and then went on to provide decades of reliable service this is really about confidence in Boeing as a company. The fact is that they rushed to manufacture an aircraft with known issues, took a calculated risk if you like, and the FAA was so close to them they didn’t carry out enough objective testing. It’s not unreasonable for people to be nervous and an airline re designating their aircraft could be viewed, in this case, as an attempt to mislead their passengers, most of whom have no idea how to tell one aircraft from another. Personally I’m happy to fly a 737max if the aircraft is re certified safe following any upgrades and mods. The airlines will not refund you if you refuse to board a duly certified aircraft, but that’s up to you.

  38. Boeing deliberately made a stable aircraft design (737) unstable to accomadate bigger fan engines. They moved the engines forward and up. This instability was then corrected (unsucessfully) by sensors and software. The aircraft is therefore fundamentally unsafe, nothing has been done to fix the basic design flaw. The only answer is a new design like the A220 (Bombardier C series) which cost $7 bn and almost bankrupted the company. However it didn’t kill anyone and is fundementally safe. The Max has now cost Boeing much more and is still unsafe. I will never fly in one.

  39. The can call the plane designed by clowns and supervised by monkeys whatever they like, but I won’t be risking it.

  40. “TUIfly will in the future identify its Boeing 737 MAX aircraft as “737-8” in flight plans”

    ICAO designator for the max is B38M and it is B738 for the regular 737-8

    they just can’t put the wrong ICAO in the FPL

  41. These comments of “I’m never flying on that aircraft or with that airline…” Thanks for the comedy you maroons. Just how many of you actually work on airplanes or work in the aerospace industry? Probably none of you. You’ll be flying on a MAX aircraft whether you know it or not, or like it or not.

  42. No Dan, I am not a “maroon” but know rather more about aviation than the average person. I have also flown on every version of the 737, from the -200 onwards and every other Boeing aircraft model from the 707 to the 787. Boeing took a gamble that they could stretch its 50 year old model well past its sell by date to save time and money and the gamble didn’t work, and now all their other shortcuts are coming to light. No, I shall not be flying on a 737MAX.

    Funny old world – Mr Weinstein took a gamble on his behaviour and got found out. But no-one died. Went to prison.
    Mr Muilenburg took a gamble with his 737, 346 people died and …… he got $60,000,000.
    Funny old world.

  43. Liam. Are we now ignoring that it was later conceded that the nosediving caused was unrecoverable on both those flights?Not to mention the multiple other software faults since found, the lax safety standards allowing FOD to be left in tanks.

    Its, imho, disingenuous of TUI, at best, to do this ( same for ryaniar who are planning the same btw). The plane was marketed and sold as “MAX” end of discussion on that tbh. If they have faith in the airplane why take such a step apart from an attempt to hoodwink pax into believing it’s not said plane?

    All said and done I decided long ago I won’t be setting foot on the things until they can go 5 years incident free and I’ll give my money to another carrier if my preferred carrier only offers the MAX on a route in the future.

  44. I personally will avoid flying on a Max! My opinion and advice to Boeing is to retrofit all the 737 Max that have been built, back to the pre Max version. Replace the engines and install them in the same location on the wings as the earlier version. This would regain confidence to a long trusted money maker to all airlines operating it.

  45. Structural flaws plague this dud ,and no software or fancy name change will get this flying coffin off the ground in the near future.

  46. They also need an emergency override button for pilot to take control instead of multiple combination buttons to press to regain control. Souls be one button painted in red and that’s it.

  47. Well done TUI. I hope you are ashamed of yourselves and people in Europe find alternative travel options. You carry on chasing profit over safety. I hope you are happy with that decision

  48. Yes, if I found out I was about to board a MAX, I would not board that plane, and try to get a different airline/plane. The MAX is unsafe and should never be flown again.

  49. On its original 737 MAX , sorry 737-8, TUI did not order the addional Angle of Attack safety features that Boeing unbelievably offered as optional extras.
    This indicates a second grade corporate culture of low cost aircraft for a low cost charter airline.

  50. Why not call it the B737- FP ?
    A flying pig with just red lipstick on one lip…
    You cannot make a software silk purse to correct a hardware pig’s ear…

  51. Boeing 737 Max? #Scrap the Craft# that should be the campaign now. They want to fly unbalanced hardware by wire? Naaaaah. Not me!

  52. No matter what they do , or name change ,and say they have fixed the problem, they are on their own, our family will never fly max 737, again

  53. You are all getting up in a huff but have failed to identify where the usage of 737-8 is to be used. Flight plans. This is not hiding anything from Joe public and the mere fact is that flight plans are rarely seen by Joe public and should have always been denounced as 737-8. If they were saying they were making this change to their booking platforms then yeah get in a fuss but needless to say they are simply stating what they should have already been doing in the first place.

  54. @Liam You’ve very clearly outlined how Boeing has fixed everything and it’s now, or soon will be, the safest aircraft in the air. But it seems you are very much an optimist and/or have financial ties directly or indirectly to this aircraft. Because as recently as one week ago, and multiple times before that, after the 3 accidents, alerts have come out detailing new discoveries of “issues”. Couple that with the fact that all of the airlines that made the decision to stop flying the aircraft, have not gone back to flying the aircraft. These two points don’t seem to reconcile with the Fantasyland depiction you paint.

  55. Did Boeing not ground the whole 737 max 8 fleet due to safety issues? Is that ban now lifted due to the issues being corrected?

  56. It’s sad that people defend a company that deliberately lied to its customers and staff to some extent…it’s not merely a question of a faulty design or bad software, it’s the culture in the company that is causing concern…the bad decisions started with the NG production and was documented…https://youtu.be/IaWdEtANi-0…there is legitimate concern.

  57. I’m guessing everybody commenting here is too young to remember the Boeing 727. It too crashed a couple of times early in its existence. But has long since been repaired, flown to reach milestones, and has long since been forgotten. All without changing the name

  58. Tools left in airplane cavities;
    I understood Snap-on built tool carts that would report a tool missing for aviation work years ago. Are there no industrial standards or are they not being enforced.

  59. No matter what they call it, they’ll still only fly you half your trip then put u on a bus for the rest of the way

  60. The fact that any of u fools fly is beyond me. I work in the aviation industry and I will NEVER fly again…EVER.

  61. @Liam get your facts straight. Why did boeing issue an apology after their initial denial that it had nothing to do with pilot training on the MCAS? People died because Boeing cared more about money. I would jump onto that MAX plane even you paid me the first class fare. I’d rather walk.

  62. I guess TUI will now lose my custom…changing the name of a plane is just about fooling Joe public into thinking that they dont care…its all about the £££.€€€.$$$$ with these airlines…
    Easyjet here I come

  63. By the time that thing flies again it will be one of the safest Boeing. No I won’t be worried. I’m more worried about the other newer Boeings models conceived around the same time as Max.
    And yes, name change is good as non-aviators understand shit, only know from headlines 737-Max is bad. Full stop.

  64. This is so plastic and the clear stuff too. Just an act to try and fool the flying public to board Boeing’s flying lemon. I know what a max 8 is and what it will always be. Don’t try to serve the public blood and call it wine. They should just make restaurants out of everyone of them. But clean out the debris in all the closets first.

  65. You can change the name, color, and people but the FACT remains, that aircraft has a design flaw period! Fly it if you want to I’m not getting on something that’s flawed from the jump.

  66. By the way the MCAS system is an attempt to fix a physical design flaw with software and we all know how that ended.

  67. I have flown several times on the 737 Max 8 and I didn’t like the plane. I have made the choice of a different airline to avoid them in the future. My money, my life, my choice.

  68. I flew on a Tui 737 Max8 from Iceland one week before the EA crash. I contacted Tui fourtimes to ask what their policy was regarding the return of the max8 to service. I received no reply! After a fifth attempt, I had a generic reply expressing regret that my holiday was not up to expectations (!) and asking me to forward my complaint to customer services – no acknowledgement of the nature of my enquiry a d no mention of max8! Customer care was appalling. I have booked a holiday direct with a continental hotel and flights separately with an airline that does not use max8. Hearing the news of Tui’s planned name change for the max8 only reaffirms my decision not to fly with them again.

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.