Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

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lumumba
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by lumumba » 05 Nov 2017, 13:18

On the other hand it not crowded around,not much population on the two ends of the runway.
So normally it should no problem to make it an alternative to Schiphol.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

BRU
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by BRU » 05 Nov 2017, 14:28

Airlines are still looking for logistic gateways and hubs, not a runway. Otherwise there would be enough alternatives with Ostend, Maastricht, Liege, Vatry, Hahn, ... Except for integrators and some specific operations or alternate for the main hubs, they all still struggle to get the carriers in. They Still prefer to go to AMS, FRA, MUC, MXP and even BRU.

Look how carriers flight to stay in AMS. There will be a day where freighters will no longer have that much choice and are force to go to these airports, but when? The same was said already 15 years ago...

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Acid-drop » 05 Nov 2017, 18:01

Good summary. ..
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lumumba
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by lumumba » 05 Nov 2017, 18:14

BRU wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 14:28
Airlines are still looking for logistic gateways and hubs, not a runway. Otherwise there would be enough alternatives with Ostend, Maastricht, Liege, Vatry, Hahn, ... Except for integrators and some specific operations or alternate for the main hubs, they all still struggle to get the carriers in. They Still prefer to go to AMS, FRA, MUC, MXP and even BRU.

Look how carriers flight to stay in AMS. There will be a day where freighters will no longer have that much choice and are force to go to these airports, but when? The same was said already 15 years ago...
I understand that ,but there is a small difference here some airlines don't use the hubs.
But they need a destination,and here you have a BIG touristic destination that can be free and cheaper to fly to.
And also quite close,closer than Charleroi,Beauvais,Hanh etc....
So it will absorb a part of the AMS traffic anyway!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Passenger » 05 Nov 2017, 18:46

With congested airports like AMS, there is a conflict of interest between passengers flights and cargo flights. Cargo at AMS = 3% of the movements, 20% of employment, but almost 0% additional revenu for the airport (like parking fees, adverts, a percentage on shopping).

LJ
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by LJ » 05 Nov 2017, 22:28

Acid-drop wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 13:14
And now russia is doing blackmail !
Not good for LGG... they really want AMS badly... i wonder why, 2-3h truck drive isnt crazy bad is it ?
Because it isn't a 2-3 hour truck drive due to the congestion on the roads. However, primary reason is that they've invested in AMS (it's where they have their infrastructure).
Passenger wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 18:46
With congested airports like AMS, there is a conflict of interest between passengers flights and cargo flights. Cargo at AMS = 3% of the movements, 20% of employment, but almost 0% additional revenu for the airport (like parking fees, adverts, a percentage on shopping).
The issue is that the cargo airlines don't arrive on their slotted times. The slotcoordinator isn't part of the government and when the other airlines rejected the "local rule" there was no way she could treat the cargo airlines differently than all the others. If we have to blame someone it should be the LCCs whice ensured the "local rule" wasn't accepted (AMS and KLM didn't vote at all).

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Acid-drop » 06 Nov 2017, 08:37

ABC is still flying to LGG today. AMS also.
Could be like qatar: split hub.
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Aerofool » 06 Nov 2017, 15:47

Apparently ABC would get all of its slots back at Schiphol:
http://www.nieuwsbladtransport.nl/Nieuw ... /Anonymous

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Passenger » 06 Nov 2017, 16:20

Schiphol versus Lelystad was one of the items in yesterdays' "Zondag Met Lubach", a very satirical tv show in the Netherlands (number of viewers: nr 8 on Dutch tv yesterday). Maybe it's more something for the Aviation.24 pub because it's Dutch only. But because Lelystad is involved here, I post it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftD9SZYviqg



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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by luchtzak » 06 Nov 2017, 18:49

FredATC wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 18:26
Aerofool wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 15:47
Apparently ABC would get all of its slots back at Schiphol:
http://www.nieuwsbladtransport.nl/Nieuw ... /Anonymous
http://www.aircargonews.net/news/airlin ... slots.html
A "code-share" :lol:

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Acid-drop » 08 Nov 2017, 09:18

Caroline Ditvoorst, slot coordinator at AMS, told NRC that the Dutch government could set a dangerous precedent by giving in to the threats over Russia’s airspace, as other carriers may try to gain space at European airports in the same way.
Very impressive thinking.
Nobody thought of that !
Pandora'box medal of the year.
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Passenger » 08 Nov 2017, 11:13

Acid-drop wrote:
08 Nov 2017, 09:18
Caroline Ditvoorst, slot coordinator at AMS, told NRC that the Dutch government could set a dangerous precedent by giving in to the threats over Russia’s airspace, as other carriers may try to gain space at European airports in the same way.
Very impressive thinking.Nobody thought of that ! Pandora'box medal of the year.
1. Russia is the only European country that is allowed to charge for its airspace. So there is no risk that it's a precedent for other European airports (unless they also chase away Russian cargo flights...).

2. Schiphol Airport has created huge problems by allowing too much passenger flights. One of the reasons for that abnormal growth is that top management remuneration was based upon... growth.

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by BRU » 08 Nov 2017, 13:31

And what should Schiphol have done to avoid this? If an airline has traffic rights and gets slots for an airport (which are all done by other entities), how can Schiphol refuse them to fly and operate?

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by convair » 08 Nov 2017, 17:22

BRU wrote:
08 Nov 2017, 13:31
And what should Schiphol have done to avoid this? If an airline has traffic rights and gets slots for an airport (which are all done by other entities), how can Schiphol refuse them to fly and operate?
I agree. In this case, it was AMS that created the problem in the first place. The Russians rightfully reacted, using their best weapon.

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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Acid-drop » 13 Nov 2017, 23:09

ABC is using both AMS and LGG for now it seems.
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by luchtzak » 17 Nov 2017, 10:54

Air Cargo Global has returned to Brussels Airport, despite the possible noise fines

http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-c ... ise-fines/

FredATC
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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by FredATC » 17 Nov 2017, 13:56

Acid-drop wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 23:09
ABC is using both AMS and LGG for now it seems.
From "De Tijd" : https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 1510922721

Does pressure from Moscow weigh on Liege?
Also Liege Airport takes goood advantage of the chaos at Schiphol . Liège Airport announced last month that the Russian AirBridgeCargo (ABC), which lost 10 weekly flights in Schiphol, would move up to 12 flights a week to Liège. But the decision of Schiphol caused a stir in Moscow . According to De Telegraaf, the Russian government threatened the closing of airspace for Dutch airlines if ABC would lose its slots at Schiphol. Dutch KLM then concluded a deal with ABC. KLM would 'lend' a number of slots at Schiphol to the Russians.
In the meantime it appears that the start-up of ABC in Liège is delayed. According to the company, that has nothing to do with the deal at Schiphol. 'ABC was ready to start 12 flights a week from the start, but the logistics at the airport were not ready for our volumes', says director Sergey Lazarev. ABC therefore opted for a step-by-step plan. It now runs 6 flights a week from Liege and adds extra flights in early 2018.


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Re: Amsterdam flights capped; some cargo operators compelled to move elsewhere

Post by Acid-drop » 23 Nov 2017, 15:01

stupid question but ... what would prevent an airline to fill the belly of a 777 without pax or with less pax ?
you could maybe have ... let's say 50% capacity compare to a real -F ?
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