Brussels region noise regulation

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 10 Dec 2017, 14:05

Passenger wrote:
10 Dec 2017, 13:16
Acid-drop wrote:
10 Dec 2017, 12:59
Bellot has nothing to do : there is currently no issue.
No issue??? Airlines are penalized by the Brussels Capital Region because there is no federal aviation law. Airlines are penalized when they respect the night restrictions for Brussels Airport.
You have to understand one thing Passenger the Brussels Region will not change there way of thinking.

Brussels will allow to be overflow in daytime but not at night because it's a city with big population etc...

One solution could be to do the same political solution than they did in Liege with Erps Kwerps and Kortenberg or if possible also with Kraainem but here I think that the population density is already to high!
That is to buy the houses or soundproofing it etc...
Than you can make plane's taking off over to this direction.
If there is no solution I can imagine that night flights will have to stop at Brussels Airport.
This airport is to close to the city to work at night and when this independent analysis from this future group will be done I'm sure there conclusions will be the same!

But where I'm agree with you is that it's a political game,every government push the decision to the next elections because they now there is no solution without hurting....
Last edited by lumumba on 16 Dec 2017, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Yuqu12 » 16 Dec 2017, 15:20

The first thing to do is make the federal government the decider on the noise restrictions in the whole country, then make a law on the base of an independent study.

SR20
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by SR20 » 13 Jan 2018, 18:22

Belgocontrol boosts preferred Brussels runways

http://www.airtrafficmanagement.net/201 ... unway-use/

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by luchtzak » 17 Jan 2018, 10:04

July last year a Belgian judge ruled that Minister of Mobility, François Bellot, had to find an (international) agency for research to look into the situation of and the impact on aircraft noise around Brussels Airport before July 2018. That deadline is now fast-approaching: six months from now. But until today not a single independent consultancy and audit agency applied for the audit. (De Tijd / L'Echo)

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Yuqu12 » 18 Jan 2018, 10:00

No, it'll be for the next government (again...)

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jan 2018, 18:47

luchtzak wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 10:04
But until today not a single independent consultancy and audit agency applied for the audit. (De Tijd / L'Echo)
The word "independent" is important. One consortium has submitted an offer. But the submission is not valid because at least two members of the consortium have either worked on aircraft noise issues around Brussels Airport, or cooperated with Brussels Airport.

Minister Bellot is thus compelled to launch a new tender, which could indeed extend beyond the current legislature.
André
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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 14 Feb 2018, 13:18

Federal minister Bellot said he won't have time during this legislation (ending May 2019) to make a new aviation law, settling the problem. The minister said nobody replied to his request for an independent study, so he has to start that all over again.

Eleven Flemish cities ("gemeenten") and the Province of Vlaams-Brabant have now sued the minister in a civil court case, demanding urgency for the new aviation law:

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/14 ... vliegwet-/

https://www.hln.be/regio/wemmel/vliegwe ... r~a6f5f9c3

http://www.aviation24.be/airports/bruss ... ation-law/

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BRU arrivals/departures over the royal domain of Laken

Post by jan_olieslagers » 15 Feb 2018, 12:40

Recent news item: certain politicians want to review the prohibition of overflying the gardens and palace at Laken.

But where is this prohibition? There is of course EBR01, the restricted area that denies flying over the Brussels city centre, and it has a curious semi-circle extension precisely over said royal garden - but the AIP states "Entry prohibited, unless instructed by ATC." and we do see that happening several times per day. I find nothing in particular in the AIP forbidding overflying the royal domain specifically.

So could it be that the current STAR and SID procedures have been designed to spare the royal quiet as much as possible? And that some want to reconsider this (over)consideration?

See:
NL https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/15 ... tens-het-/
FR http://www.lesoir.be/140254/article/201 ... e-zaventem

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Re: BRU arrivals/departures over the royal domain of Laken

Post by sn26567 » 15 Feb 2018, 13:43

According to Le Soir, it is not politicians, but the Administration that is asking for a modification of the flight routes to allow flying above the Royal Palace and also the Royal Domain of Ciergnon.

Minister Bellot does not support the changes.
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Re: BRU arrivals/departures over the royal domain of Laken

Post by jan_olieslagers » 15 Feb 2018, 13:51

Looks like you are right, André (why must you always be right ? :) ) Report on VRT managed to mislead me - blame on them and (a bit) on my poor self!

Only I can't help wondering what the royal domain in Ciergnon has to do in this discussion - it has its own EBR02 restricted area, but I am not aware of any argument around it. It is only 0,8 NM in radius, after all, a tiny spot on the giant green lung of the Ardennes.

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 15 Feb 2018, 16:06

Le Soir writes: "...la DGTA demandant cette levée des interdictions, justifiant sa démarche par des raisons techniques..." Translated: the Directorate-General asks this for technical reasons.

Reply from minister Bellot (cfr. Le Soir): "Il existe bien un texte qui va dans ce sens, mais nous n’en sommes pas demandeurs. Nous sommes en attente d’une explication de l’administration sur une telle démarche, mais nous ne tiendrons pas compte de ce texte".

It's an unusal move from a minister to disagree with the specialists from his administration about technical issues.

It's even more unusal that a minister critizes his top public servants so publicly. After all, this is about an issue that those guys (= DGTA/BDL) know a zillion time better then the minister.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 » 15 Feb 2018, 17:15

Everyone knows that behind this technical justification there is a political background. Need I say more?
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers » 15 Feb 2018, 17:18

If only there was a technical justification. There is none, not even a bad one. He doesn't even try! Just says "Nuts".

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 15 Feb 2018, 17:32

I don't understand that you guys don't understand that flying over a city and a very densely populated area will not happen!
It's sounds logical to everybody around me here in Brussels....
Even Frankfurt who has a better geographical situation is closed at night.
Brussels Airport is surrounded by very populated areas Brussels and Vlaams Brabant.
So let's close this airport at night and open it from 07:00 in the morning till 11PM.
It will be a medium airport that looks logical ....there us no place here anyway.

One route would work for night flights it's the ring route between Brussels and Vlaams Brabant but for in unknown reason this route is never mentioned.

Also you could do the same than in Liege and buy or isolated houses in Erps Kwerps and Kortenberg so you can make a longer runway on this site but again nobody speaks about it's taboo....

You can not buy or isolated houses in Brussels obviously!!!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by crew1990 » 15 Feb 2018, 18:59

Nobody force anybody to live somewhere, you are the only one taking decision, if you don't like the noise of the airplane, the train passing next to your house, the truck passing on your street the smell and the pollution of the industry just next to you, well then move! Nobody force you to stay! But don't block the economic growth of your country for your own selfish little confort.

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger » 15 Feb 2018, 21:12

sn26567 wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 17:15
Everyone knows that behind this technical justification there is a political background. Need I say more?
New routes mean some relief for those who now get most of the traffic. Me thinks that the Civil Authorities understand that new routes are possible when that restriction "don't disturb the king" is lifted. Hence their a-political request to lift that ban.

The opinions about the "political background" totally differ north versus south. And Bellot's reaction reconfirms that: "no change is needed - it's going good now".

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 15 Feb 2018, 21:29

crew1990 wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 18:59
Nobody force anybody to live somewhere, you are the only one taking decision, if you don't like the noise of the airplane, the train passing next to your house, the truck passing on your street the smell and the pollution of the industry just next to you, well then move! Nobody force you to stay! But don't block the economic growth of your country for your own selfish little confort.
I also proposed some solutions....
I don't think it's black or white there are a lot of city's that refused the DHL hub for those reasons.
Do we chose for or quality of life or economic expansion it's a discussion....knowing that we live in a very densely populated area.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax » 17 Feb 2018, 10:56

lumumba wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 21:29


I also proposed some solutions....
I don't think it's black or white there are a lot of city's that refused the DHL hub for those reasons.
Do we chose for or quality of life or economic expansion it's a discussion....knowing that we live in a very densely populated area.
LHR, LAX, CDG, SIN, AMS, SXF, ... all very densely populated areas. Weak excuse. This is the national airport with a significant economic impact for the Belgian economy (also for the Brussels region). A fair distribution of flights is the answer. Please note that the "Ménapiens" and peasants from Erps-Kwerps and the "Noordrand" also have a right on some quiet time. This can all be provided with a fair distribution.

You just don't want aircraft above your head, but like to use them yourself without the burden. You sure you are on the right forum?

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba » 17 Feb 2018, 13:57

Fairfax wrote:
17 Feb 2018, 10:56
lumumba wrote:
15 Feb 2018, 21:29


I also proposed some solutions....
I don't think it's black or white there are a lot of city's that refused the DHL hub for those reasons.
Do we chose for or quality of life or economic expansion it's a discussion....knowing that we live in a very densely populated area.
LHR, LAX, CDG, SIN, AMS, SXF, ... all very densely populated areas. Weak excuse. This is the national airport with a significant economic impact for the Belgian economy (also for the Brussels region). A fair distribution of flights is the answer. Please note that the "Ménapiens" and peasants from Erps-Kwerps and the "Noordrand" also have a right on some quiet time. This can all be provided with a fair distribution.

You just don't want aircraft above your head, but like to use them yourself without the burden. You sure you are on the right forum?
I just propose what was already done in other airports...for my part you can buy or isolated houses here in Brussels but it will be very expensive....
And yes it's not because I'm not with the mainstream I can not give my opinion.....

And CDG,LHR or San Francisco or even AMS are in less densely populated areas and there runways are not pointing directly at the city centre....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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