Air Belgium in 2018

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

teach wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:07
CTBke wrote: 20 Jan 2018, 14:06 VG airlines was the best possible example ... Blocked by politics ...
No they weren't.
I don't think that a yes/no discussion will be beneficial for this topic. Please consider adding some arguments why you say no. Thanks!

JOVAN
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by JOVAN »

The HNA group, to which Hainan Airlines belongs is not doing well, financially.

Too much buying of companies and shares (even in Deutsche Bank); but losing money.
The CEO, Mr. TAN has disappeared or is hiding.

Wait and see .

Who knows this could have an influence on the AB plans & strategy ???

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

2018 is the EU-China Tourism Year (ECTY), a big market in China is waiting to visit Europe, I wrote an item on it. You can read it here: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-b ... and-china/

crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by crew1990 »

JOVAN wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 18:34 The HNA group, to which Hainan Airlines belongs is not doing well, financially.

Too much buying of companies and shares (even in Deutsche Bank); but losing money.
The CEO, Mr. TAN has disappeared or is hiding.

Wait and see .

Who knows this could have an influence on the AB plans & strategy ???
Or on Brussels Airlines strategy...

When Jet Airways left, Brussels Airlines started Toronto and then Mumbai, if Hainan goes bankrupt, maybe Brussels Airlines could start Beijing in partnership with Air China.

teach
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by teach »

luchtzak wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:41
teach wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:07
CTBke wrote: 20 Jan 2018, 14:06 VG airlines was the best possible example ... Blocked by politics ...
No they weren't.
I don't think that a yes/no discussion will be beneficial for this topic. Please consider adding some arguments why you say no. Thanks!
That's not how this works. 'They were blocked by politics' is the statement that needs to be backed up with arguments and facts, not that they weren't. The one who makes the accusations is the one who needs to back them up. I don't need to add arguments, as a lack of arguments from the other side does that for me.

sean1982
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sean1982 »

teach wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:11
luchtzak wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:41
teach wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:07

No they weren't.
I don't think that a yes/no discussion will be beneficial for this topic. Please consider adding some arguments why you say no. Thanks!
That's not how this works. 'They were blocked by politics' is the statement that needs to be backed up with arguments and facts, not that they weren't. The one who makes the accusations is the one who needs to back them up. I don't need to add arguments, as a lack of arguments from the other side does that for me.
Well, I can think of one. Freddy Van Gaever had a very personal feud with Herman De Croo who at the time was responsible for the "benoemingen" at the Directoraat der Luchtvaart. Hearsay is that he used his influence to delay the AOC for as long as possible. This didn't cause the bankruptcy but at least gave VG airlines a false start

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

But of course that kind of story cannot easily get a backing of solid facts. I am quite willing to believe it - it does seem to align with the spirit of those times. "La Belgique à Papa" vs. "them cowboys from the North, with their uncouth dialects" ... :) It will require some determined journalistics to become proven fact, though.

convair
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by convair »

sean1982 wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:33
Well, I can think of one. Freddy Van Gaever had a very personal feud with Herman De Croo who at the time was responsible for the "benoemingen" at the Directoraat der Luchtvaart. Hearsay is that he used his influence to delay the AOC for as long as possible. This didn't cause the bankruptcy but at least gave VG airlines a false start
Hearsay...! Brilliant demonstration! :roll:
jan_olieslagers wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 20:17 But of course that kind of story cannot easily get a backing of solid facts. I am quite willing to believe it - it does seem to align with the spirit of those times. "La Belgique à Papa" vs. "them cowboys from the North, with their uncouth dialects" ... :) It will require some determined journalistics to become proven fact, though.
Tu quoque jan ! From a personal feud to a "communautair" motivation... Beautiful!
I didn't know you could fly that low; did you buy a submarine? Sad, not used to read that kind of comment under your name... :( :o
And, afaik, Herman De Croo is "one of them cowboys from the North". 8-)

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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sean1982 »

convair wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 00:09
sean1982 wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:33
Well, I can think of one. Freddy Van Gaever had a very personal feud with Herman De Croo who at the time was responsible for the "benoemingen" at the Directoraat der Luchtvaart. Hearsay is that he used his influence to delay the AOC for as long as possible. This didn't cause the bankruptcy but at least gave VG airlines a false start
Hearsay...! Brilliant demonstration! :roll:
jan_olieslagers wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 20:17 But of course that kind of story cannot easily get a backing of solid facts. I am quite willing to believe it - it does seem to align with the spirit of those times. "La Belgique à Papa" vs. "them cowboys from the North, with their uncouth dialects" ... :) It will require some determined journalistics to become proven fact, though.
Tu quoque jan ! From a personal feud to a "communautair" motivation... Beautiful!
I didn't know you could fly that low; did you buy a submarine? Sad, not used to read that kind of comment under your name... :( :o
And, afaik, Herman De Croo is "one of them cowboys from the North". 8-)
I didnt say that, Antoon Van Eeckhout from the federation of flemish travel agencies said that. And I don't thin Jan was talking North vs South, but more the style of politics where it's good enough to be "son of" ... to get a career vs the newer style. Enough examples of that: De Croo, Toback, Michel, Van Den Bossche, ....

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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

No, Herman de Croo is a very typical representative of "La Belgique a papa". Old-style Belgium where everything can be arranged through elaborate compromises that few can totally oversee or comprehend, where A will do B a favour if B is prepared to do a counter-favour &c &c.

I am quite sure that in those years a startup airline from Wallonia would have met with exactly the same issues as Freddy Van Gaever did - indeed not "communautair" at all.

convair
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by convair »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 11:55 No, Herman de Croo is a very typical representative of "La Belgique a papa". Old-style Belgium where everything can be arranged through elaborate compromises that few can totally oversee or comprehend, where A will do B a favour if B is prepared to do a counter-favour &c &c.

I am quite sure that in those years a startup airline from Wallonia would have met with exactly the same issues as Freddy Van Gaever did - indeed not "communautair" at all.
You've clarified your point; thanks.

However, I'm not so sure New-style Belgium is much different from the Old-style one. But let's be optimistic! :)

(But I still wonder what the "vs them cowboys from the North with their uncouth dialects" means here.) :?

teach
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by teach »

sean1982 wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:33
teach wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:11
luchtzak wrote: 21 Jan 2018, 11:41

I don't think that a yes/no discussion will be beneficial for this topic. Please consider adding some arguments why you say no. Thanks!
That's not how this works. 'They were blocked by politics' is the statement that needs to be backed up with arguments and facts, not that they weren't. The one who makes the accusations is the one who needs to back them up. I don't need to add arguments, as a lack of arguments from the other side does that for me.
Well, I can think of one. Freddy Van Gaever had a very personal feud with Herman De Croo who at the time was responsible for the "benoemingen" at the Directoraat der Luchtvaart. Hearsay is that he used his influence to delay the AOC for as long as possible. This didn't cause the bankruptcy but at least gave VG airlines a false start
Hearsay. Another word for that is 'gossip'.

Bralo20
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Bralo20 »

Air Belgium changed their profile pic (again) on facebook.

Seems they lay the emphasis on "air" in their name now. Does this mean it's all just a bunch of air? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
26815562_1900006510328959_4204001996316436786_n.jpg
26815562_1900006510328959_4204001996316436786_n.jpg (21.33 KiB) Viewed 3910 times

sean1982
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by sean1982 »

teach wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 13:31
sean1982 wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:33
teach wrote: 22 Jan 2018, 19:11

That's not how this works. 'They were blocked by politics' is the statement that needs to be backed up with arguments and facts, not that they weren't. The one who makes the accusations is the one who needs to back them up. I don't need to add arguments, as a lack of arguments from the other side does that for me.
Well, I can think of one. Freddy Van Gaever had a very personal feud with Herman De Croo who at the time was responsible for the "benoemingen" at the Directoraat der Luchtvaart. Hearsay is that he used his influence to delay the AOC for as long as possible. This didn't cause the bankruptcy but at least gave VG airlines a false start
Hearsay. Another word for that is 'gossip'.
Right OK then I'm quoting Antoon Van Eeckhout of the federation of flemish travel agencies

"Ja, VG Airlines is onrechtvaardig behandeld, benadeeld en gesaboteerd door concurrenten en potentiÎle con-currenten, door het Bestuur der Luchtvaart en door de politiek. En ja, Van Gaever heeft dit, ten dele aan zichzelf te danken. Je ontbloot immers niet ongestraft, De Croo(n). Zeker niet wanneer dezelfde persoon de helft van het Bestuur der Luchtvaart heeft benoemd. "

convair
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by convair »

Free translation: when you p.. against the wind... :)

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Which somewhat correlates to my (very personal!) view of things: Van Gaever was considered a renegade, dangerous to the airspace because he was dangerous, or at least lacking in respect for, the system. That he spoke a language "foreign" to said system did not help either - la Belgique à Papa considered "Flemish" no more than a farmers patois. Whence the advent and heavy promotion of Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands in the late 1960's. But I must refrain from turning this thread into a lecture on recent Belgian history... :oops:

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by luchtzak »

I think everyone has had the opportunity to have their say. Now let's all wait for the white smoke!

nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by nordikcam »

luchtzak wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 20:16 I think everyone has had the opportunity to have their say. Now let's all wait for the white smoke!
Not to mention the AOC :
1.The plane that was to be delivered in November 2017 is there somewhere?
2.Has the Belgian airport been definitively determined?
3.The beginning of the operations was postponed at the beginning of 2018. When stops "the beginning 2018"?

At the same time HU, CX and even VG get organized or develop.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by TLspotting »

nordikcam wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 20:37 3.The beginning of the operations was postponed at the beginning of 2018. When stops "the beginning 2018"?
AB replied to a Facebook user who asked when will fly AB, they gold : " Spring 2018"
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Bralo20
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Re: Air Belgium: a rebirth?

Post by Bralo20 »

TLspotting wrote: 23 Jan 2018, 21:13 AB replied to a Facebook user who asked when will fly AB, they gold : " Spring 2018"
And at the end of the spring it will become summer and then it will turn into fall,...

Just like spring 2017 turned into summer 2017 etc... And they still don't have the planes, they still haven't an AOC, they don't have slots, they don't have ... virtually the only thing they have is some people on their payroll for over a year now. Fortunately for them, there's currently unlimited cash in China so they seem to be fine on that front.

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