Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

A place to discuss military aviation: airshows, stunning pictures, weapons, etc...

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 32874
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 14 Feb 2018, 18:07

cathay belgium wrote:
14 Feb 2018, 02:14

Besides living in europe I say Europe first like some might say ...
I agree with you.

Furthermore, the F-35 is by far the most expensive option and Lockheed Martin offers close to nothing as compensations to the Belgian industry.

Admittedly the F-35 is the only one that offers stealth properties but this advantage will soon be outraged with the progress of technology.

Both the Rafale and the Typhoon manufacturers offer large compensations. Belgium would be stupid not to select one of them.

The F-35 will offer commonality with the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries, but the Typhoon has been selected by the UK, Germany and several other European countries and the Rafale by France.

The choice seems evident!
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 32874
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 14 Feb 2018, 18:12

Incidentally, the Netherlands and Denmark are already regretting their choice of the F-35. The Netherlands don't have the money to pay for the last planes they're buying...
André
ex Sabena #26567

DIBO
Posts: 372
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 14:54

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by DIBO » 14 Feb 2018, 22:04

Boavida wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 23:49
Yeah, let's buy a previous generation aircraft conceived in the 80's...
http://www.jsf.mil wrote:What is commonly known today as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program had its origination in several programs from the late 1980s and early 1990s.

User avatar
cathay belgium
Posts: 2079
Joined: 18 Aug 2008, 00:17
Location: Lommel-Belgium
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by cathay belgium » 14 Feb 2018, 22:19

Hi,

Furthermore you have to look at the technology of the enemy...
We will not fight USA,Russia,China soon , neither North Corea for obvious reasons !
We fight terrorism ... An 70's F16'S still do the job ;) now and the next 20 years also!

CXB
New types 2018 : AN140-Bell212-Bergfalke4
Planned new types in 2018 : A320NEO-B1900D-B772LR

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1292
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by lumumba » 14 Feb 2018, 22:51

Anyway we will have to go for a European army...and stop compete each other developing 3 different fighters on the same continent .
Like Airbus we will developing a military industry together...at least I hope, it's not only for or security but these military budget are huge and are flooding away for the moment to other continents.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

eurojet
Posts: 141
Joined: 26 Aug 2004, 00:00
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by eurojet » 16 Feb 2018, 09:42

well for the Rafale fans .. Let's see how the political parties of the North explain to their electorate that they have chosen a plane from a producer that decided not to participate into the RFP and lobbied its way in. Maybe somewhere else in Belgium they have already forgotten about "Agusta", but not in the North ... My prediction: F35 and MR will get something nice in place (nice job for someone of MR at an international institution e.g.) .. Alternatives are no decision at all and leave it to a future government ... This is still belgium, after all ...

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 2447
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 16 Feb 2018, 10:22

Worth reading AND considering:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/16 ... herie-f16/
(in Dutch)

convair
Posts: 1452
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by convair » 16 Feb 2018, 13:10

jan_olieslagers wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:22
Worth reading AND considering:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/16 ... herie-f16/
(in Dutch)
Very interesting indeed! It sheds a different light on the whole matter.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 32874
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by sn26567 » 16 Feb 2018, 14:00

eurojet wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 09:42
Maybe somewhere else in Belgium they have already forgotten about "Agusta", but not in the North ...
I don't see the relation to this topic. Agusta was Italian, not French. And the main guy affected by the scandal was from the North: Willy Claes had to quit his job as Secretary-General of NATO.
jan_olieslagers wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 10:22
Worth reading AND considering:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/02/16 ... herie-f16/
(in Dutch)
I can only agree with (ret.) colonel Therie. Pity that most of his former colleagues of the Air Component are of a different opinion.
André
ex Sabena #26567

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 2447
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 16 Feb 2018, 14:51

I don't see the relation to this topic. Agusta was Italian, not French.
The relation is that the government is going to spend money, quite a lot of money. And, as it says in the holy book of the Scythians, "where the corpse is, there are the vultures gathered".
And the main guy affected by the scandal was from the North
At the risk of (again) descending into the bowl of politics: some in the South were deeply implied, too, both in Liège and in Charleroi. But at that time, and perhaps even today to some degree, the South considered such aberrations more normal, or at least more tolerable. That is the difference: in the "esprit Germanique" more importance is attached to clean politics.
Pity that most of his former colleagues of the Air Component are of a different opinion.
What relevance? The decision is not on the military anyway. At best, they will be heard.

Boavida
Posts: 354
Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 23:54

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by Boavida » 16 Feb 2018, 16:12

If Belgium choses the Rafale, the BAF will become a small division of the French Air Force. If we chose the F35 we will be equal partners with the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, etc.

I don't understand this adoration for everything French by our French-speaking compatriots. We've already sold half of our country to the French! Isn't that enough?

The French decided NOT to participate in the official competition. Simple result: they're disqualified. No more corruption, no more secret arrangements, no more favoritism. We're not the 90's anymore.

User avatar
Airbus330lover
Posts: 705
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by Airbus330lover » 16 Feb 2018, 17:10

Then, between F35 and Typhoon..... surely european.....
Président Drunk said : America first.....
We, europeans could say : Europ first !

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 2447
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 16 Feb 2018, 19:37

@Boavida: it is indeed a poor choice between being a chihuahua to Paris or a chihuahua to Washington. But the number or nature of the other chihuahuas in the kennel is of least concern.

But I agree the Rafale was taken out of the competition by those who ought to push it.

convair
Posts: 1452
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by convair » 17 Feb 2018, 00:16

Boavida wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 16:12
I don't understand this adoration for everything French by our French-speaking compatriots.
OMG! :lol: I wish you'd realize how completely wrong you are! :lol:

Could it be that there is a reaction caused by the hate against everything that's French by other compatriots? :roll:
Come on, keep your nerve please...

OK, give SN to KLM... ;) Oops, that would be Air France... :lol: D....d!

User avatar
stratofreighter
Posts: 784
Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 16:50

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by stratofreighter » 20 Feb 2018, 22:26

...what has he been smoking/drinking? :roll:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... -lawmaker/
Belgium has shown interest in the Rafale fighter jet for maritime use,
said Jean-Jacques Bridey, chairman of the French Defence Committee of the lower house National Assembly.

"The Belgians are interested in the Rafale,” he told The Defense Journalists Association.

“Why? If they buy the Rafale, it will be the naval Rafale.”

Belgium is interested in the aircraft’s ability to land on the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle,
which would boost Belgium’s deployment capacity,

Bridey said. “This is a seaborne airbase, after all,” he added.
...what a joker... :lol:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... h-lawmaker
http://airnieuws.nl updates per 15 May 2018: Fokker, Amsterdam Schiphol, etc. . ;)

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1292
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by lumumba » 20 Feb 2018, 22:36

stratofreighter wrote:
20 Feb 2018, 22:26
...what has he been smoking/drinking? :roll:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... -lawmaker/
Belgium has shown interest in the Rafale fighter jet for maritime use,
said Jean-Jacques Bridey, chairman of the French Defence Committee of the lower house National Assembly.

"The Belgians are interested in the Rafale,” he told The Defense Journalists Association.

“Why? If they buy the Rafale, it will be the naval Rafale.”

Belgium is interested in the aircraft’s ability to land on the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle,
which would boost Belgium’s deployment capacity,

Bridey said. “This is a seaborne airbase, after all,” he added.
...what a joker... :lol:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... h-lawmaker
Why I don't understand?
That's good news....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
stratofreighter
Posts: 784
Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 16:50

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by stratofreighter » 20 Feb 2018, 23:31

Belgian Rafales operating regularly from the only French Navy aircraft carrier currently in service?
No, that will not be happening... :roll:

That is a pipe-dream, and the future will show this.

This "naval capability" is not even in the Belgian requirements-documents.

And for those who think otherwise:
I strongly suggest you read the official
http://www.vandeput.fgov.be/sites/defau ... osal_0.pdf
VERY carefully...
http://airnieuws.nl updates per 15 May 2018: Fokker, Amsterdam Schiphol, etc. . ;)

eurojet
Posts: 141
Joined: 26 Aug 2004, 00:00
Location: Luxembourg

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by eurojet » 22 Feb 2018, 17:57

Cool making a business case by projecting some Belgian version of Top Gun, landing on the CDG which has spent 2/3 of its serviceable life in the dry dock due to faulty design of the hull and nuclear reactors (which were designed for submarines not carriers ). I think the CDG lost one of its propellor as well while sailing...

Desert Rat
Posts: 1058
Joined: 08 May 2007, 09:38

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by Desert Rat » 20 Mar 2018, 13:25

According to the press, the F16 could live 6 more years until 2029 instead of 2023 as announced by NVA Steven VDP....this is the best option for Belgium, I wonder what push the nationalists to call for a new tender in such a hurry. The technology todays allows to extend Design Service Goal of an A/C, thanks to new structure stress calculation and 3d modeling. Better to take full benefit of our MRO industry and retrofit the F16 to extend their life than to buy in a hurry!

Inquirer
Posts: 1947
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Which future fighter jet for Belgian Defence?

Post by Inquirer » 21 Mar 2018, 08:35

As far as I understood it, its 'on average' 6 more years, meaning the training planes can likely go on for up to 10 extra years even, yet the combat ready planes up to 3 years only. Already far less attractive.
I know politicians have a short investment horizon (i.e. the next election) and especially on the left they would love to spend the money on other things, but it's not like keeping the F16 flying is a long term nor a cheap alternative if you look at the entire lifespan of both the F16 and its successor combined: at best it postpones a purchase of new planes by a few years, but it does so at an unknown extra cost.
Not sure it's such a smart decision in the long run then, other than that it kicks the can down the road a bit and thus keeps an investment of which we all know it's going to have to be made anyway out of the budget for now: sounds like the government style of the previous government all right???

Post Reply