Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Ansett wrote: 08 Jun 2018, 22:55 After Swissair killed Sabena (with a few non Swiss acomplices), LH is going to make SN disappear. No more Sabena, no more SN.
Swissair did not killed Sabena. Swissair robbed Sabena. The primary reason for the bankruptcy was that the airline business worldwide collapsed on 11th September 2001. Few weeks later, Sabena asked the trade court for legal protection against creditors ("concordaat"), and the trade court agreed. But then, the pilots went on strike, causing another series of unforeseen and unexpected costs, and another decline in turnover and cash flow. The direct result from this was that business rescue plan, accepted by the trade court, couldn't be realized anymore. Because the Board had signed that business rescue plan in court, the Board was legally forced to advise the trade court that the business rescue plan had failed, and they therefore had to declare bankruptcy.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Boavida »

Poiu wrote: 09 Jun 2018, 10:47 With all respect Ansett, but you start to sound like a broken record.
LH saved BruAir from bankruptcy!! The whole EW integration is about cost cutting, in order to keep a base in BRU viable, nothing else. LH is not killing BruAir at all, the name will go, but employment will stay, probably on lower T&Cs though.
Besides that, passengers don’t care about the colour of the aircraft, the care about the price.
A couple of frustrated aviation enthusiasts won’t change LH’s plans. You may not like it but it is what it is and you will have to live with it.
With all due respect, but arguments like "LH saved SN" and "people don't care about the name on the plane" are false.

First: "LH saved SN". At the time, yes. But in the end, the final result is the same: SN will DISAPPEAR and is replaced by a German low-cost company. So basically, the company is not "saved". The company will be gone.

Second: "People don't care about the colour of the aircraft". If this was the case, all planes in the world would be white with no identity and no affiliation to a country. Identity and branding are still -very- important in today's (business) world.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

For how long do we still have to read "LH saved SN..."? :roll:

So at SN they should be thankful, bend over and take whatever LH would shove up their ***?

The only reason LH bought SN was to fend off its backyard. Oneworld would have been the logical choice for SN back in those days and I can't imagine LH would like a ow-hub so close to FRA. They used to fly A300's into BRU due to high demand.

Maybe Mayrhuber had some better ideas for SN but even so, those times are long gone.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

It has been reported elsewhere that, even before the first flight, Brussels Airlines is cancelling Sharm el-Sheikh flights due to security reasons (while TUI Airlines Belgium is maintaining its own flights).

The Embassy of Egypt is surprised by this decision. It says that nothing has changed in the Sharm el-Sheikh region since months. This is confirmed by the Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is advising not to visit the Sinai, except the hotel area in Sharm el-Sheikh considered as safe.

Are there other reasons behind the decision of Brussels Airlines?
André
ex Sabena #26567

Jaguar
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jaguar »

Probably due to the lack of crew and aircraft , hence the security excuse is just a smokescreen...

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 10 Jun 2018, 17:27 It has been reported elsewhere that, even before the first flight, Brussels Airlines is cancelling Sharm el-Sheikh flights due to security reasons (while TUI Airlines Belgium is maintaining its own flights).

The Embassy of Egypt is surprised by this decision. It says that nothing has changed in the Sharm el-Sheikh region since months. This is confirmed by the Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is advising not to visit the Sinai, except the hotel area in Sharm el-Sheikh considered as safe.

Are there other reasons behind the decision of Brussels Airlines?
Normal reaction from Egypt. But they have to face reality: it's not a no-go zone, but not the safest place on earth neither. If one reads what Belgian Foreign Affairs writes, one can assume that there is a safety issue indeed. And ongoing: there is no decrease of the safety issue:

Sharm el Sheikh en Zuid-Sinai
Reizen naar de Zuidelijke Sinai worden afgeraden, met uitzondering van de hotelzone rond Sharm el Sheikh. Wees er u echter van bewust dat ook hier een terroristische dreiging bestaat.
Verplaatsingen over de weg, inclusief bezoeken aan Taba en het Sint-Katarinaklooster, alsook uitstappen buiten Sharm, worden afgeraden. Op 18/4 vond een gewapende aanval plaats tegen een politiecheckpoint bij het Catharinaklooster in Zuid-Sinai
.

Sharm el Sheik et le sud du Sinaï
Les voyages au sud du Sinaï sont déconseillés, à l'exception de la zone hôtelière autour de Sharm el Sheikh. Mais soyez conscient qu’une menace terroriste existe également ici.
Les voyages par route, y compris les visites à Taba et au monastère de Sainte-Catherine, ainsi que les excursions hors de Sharm el Sheikh, sont déconseillés. Le 18/4/2017, une attaque armée a eu lieu contre un checkpoint de la police près du monastère Sainte Catherine, au Sinaï du sud.


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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

Jaguar wrote: 10 Jun 2018, 18:25 Probably due to the lack of crew and aircraft , hence the security excuse is just a smokescreen...
1 single flight per week, during the weekend. Yeah that must solve a lot if that would be the actual reason.

Jaguar
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jaguar »

Yes 1 single flight but one that requires an off day afterwards for the crew as do many of the long saturday charter flights, in times where cockpit AND Cabincrew is being called in their off days , every bit helps...

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

Jaguar wrote: 11 Jun 2018, 13:26 Yes 1 single flight but one that requires an off day afterwards for the crew as do many of the long saturday charter flights, in times where cockpit AND Cabincrew is being called in their off days , every bit helps...
Still the impact of that 1 flight is very limited on your overall crew utilization. And anyway if you have to cancel flights because of a lack of crew, you cancel flights where you have an alternative for the customer, not the single frequency on a new route which is sold completely to a partner company. Like with the strike days, exactly those where the type of flights that were effectively operated with those crew that wanted to work because for them it was by far the most difficult to arrange an alternative.

Anyway it says enough that Thomas Cook offers an alternative holiday in Egypt (SN does fly to Marsa Alam and Hurghada) or to get their money back instead of chartering ather aircraft or even rebook on TUI or reroute via foreign partners (no not 100% of the flights for Thomas Cook are operated by SN so not that wouldn't be absolutely impossible-though probably expensive in high season on such short notice).

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by KriVa »

If the reason for the cancellations really was crew shortage, why not subcharter VLM planes, like they’ve done more than a few times in the past, to perform the flights?
Something tells me they really are concerned...
Thomas

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

KriVa wrote: 11 Jun 2018, 19:21 If the reason for the cancellations really was crew shortage, why not subcharter VLM planes, like they’ve done more than a few times in the past, to perform the flights?
Something tells me they really are concerned...
Exactly, doesn't have to be VLM per se, but as I said in the last part of my post it says a lot that Thomas Cook is not arranging alternative transport or not even talking about trying to find it to save at least part of the season.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by rwandan-flyer »

With all respect Ansett, but you start to sound like a broken record.
LH saved BruAir from bankruptcy!! The whole EW integration is about cost cutting, in order to keep a base in BRU viable, nothing else. LH is not killing BruAir at all, the name will go, but employment will stay, probably on lower T&Cs though.
Besides that, passengers don’t care about the colour of the aircraft, the care about the price.
A couple of frustrated aviation enthusiasts won’t change LH’s plans. You may not like it but it is what it is and you will have to live with it.
Agree

Remind me, when KLM started to serve Kigali, in 2011. They never served Rwanda, like Sabena or Air France. They are now carrying more passengers than Brussels Airlines ( 145 000 in 2016, while 57 000 for Brussels Airlines). In only, 2 years, they increased their service, from 5 flights a week to daily service. The A330-300 is often deployed (292 seats).

In term of seat avaibility, SN is now 3rd, behind, KLM (daily A330-200 / 300), Qatar Airways (daily B787), but just ahead Turkish Airlines (daily B737), and i exclude Ethiopian (2 daily B737) & Kenya Airways (3-4 daily ERJ-190 / B737).

I think it's almost finish, the period, where people used to fly with Air France or Sabena (now Brussels Airlines) to Africa. There are new players, including Turkish Airlines, Emirates or Qatar Airways, even Air Malta is eyeing to add flights to Sub-Saharan Africa. Some others players have added more destinations, such as Ethiopian and Royal Air Maroc. Even British Airways has decided to close some major destinations, in Africa, such as Khartoum, Addis Ababa, Dar Es Salaam, Lusaka or Entebbe.

So if one day, LX with their A320Neo / LR, Lufthansa or Eurowings decide to serve Kigali, i won't be suprised.
Rwanda Aviation News (Drones, Air Force, Civil Aviation, Space, Air Balloon): https://www.facebook.com/RwandAn-Flyer-153177931456873

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

Meeting between board and Unions is still in progress ?

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers »

According to vrtnws, an initial agreement has been reached, which is now to get support from staff.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/06/11 ... ndelingen/

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Conti764 »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 11 Jun 2018, 23:17 According to vrtnws, an initial agreement has been reached, which is now to get support from staff.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/06/11 ... ndelingen/
Good thing. If only the German bosses were less stuborn BEFORE the strike, it could have been avoided.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Conti764 wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 01:28 Good thing. If only the German bosses were less stuborn BEFORE the strike, it could have been avoided.
The strike from last month could also been avoided when the trade unions would have accepted that an airline with a small profit can't spend most of that profit to one select group of employees. And certainly not when that select group is already the most expensive one. The inititial demands from the unions would have resulted in a 25% increase of their costs. Did they really think that management/owners would give them that?

flightlover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 07:57
Conti764 wrote: 12 Jun 2018, 01:28 Good thing. If only the German bosses were less stuborn BEFORE the strike, it could have been avoided.
The strike from last month could also been avoided when the trade unions would have accepted that an airline with a small profit can't spend most of that profit to one select group of employees. And certainly not when that select group is already the most expensive one. The inititial demands from the unions would have resulted in a 25% increase of their costs. Did they really think that management/owners would give them that?
The most paid and thus most expensive group of employees are those managers (most of the time). And they don't mind taking a raise when the result goes south. On the other hand they are always urging their employees to work harder, longer and more flexible for less pay. Hell, when you ask what effort they will be doing themselves to lower their cost to the company when they announce another round of cost-cutting, they could kill you with their eyes.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Today at 12h00 local (10h00 UTC): dep SN-2018 Brussels-Moscow SVO (A320-200 OO-SNA):

Belgian Red Devils to the World Cup.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sna

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