ASL Airlines Belgium (ex-TNT Airways) news 2017

[Nevihta]

You perhaps forget that belgian owned companies also pay taxes in Belgium (and that makes a lot...)

[flightlover]

You perhaps forget that belgian owned companies also pay taxes in Belgium (and that makes a lot...)

And Belgian companies are well trained in tax evasion (just like any big company these days)

[Acid-drop]

Thing is... BECA is only a very small percentage of the aviation world but they try to impact negatively the whole thing, I understand they defend their bread, but there are limits !
Yes Wallonia is right to give the priority to the creation of jobs, it is a great success for the whole country and it should continue.
I dont see why we still have limits and controls for cargo flights in BE.

[Acid-drop]

You perhaps forget that belgian owned companies also pay taxes in Belgium (and that makes a lot...)

You perhaps forget that each job is taxed 56,7% in belgium and that makes even more tax revenue.

[Nevihta]

You perhaps forget that each job is taxed 56,7% in belgium and that makes even more tax revenue.

If you want to go deep into that, sure the salary of pilots are taxed at the highest rate.
But as you might know if you know a little bit about aviation business, when talking about ground jobs, especially at TNT, we're not talking about high salaries, which means not that much tax revenue..

[flightlover]

You perhaps forget that each job is taxed 56,7% in belgium and that makes even more tax revenue.

If you want to go deep into that, sure the salary of pilots are taxed at the highest rate.
But as you might know if you know a little bit about aviation business, when talking about ground jobs, especially at TNT, we're not talking about high salaries, which means not that much tax revenue..

40-45% then? Not counting housing tax, VAT, and many other non avoidable taxes.

And last but not least, that one pilot earning 5000€ and saving half of his income will contribute less than 3 persons earning 1500€ because they will spend almost all of it.

[Acid-drop]

So back to the article :
"ETH uses these to fly from Belgium to Hong Kong, Shanghai and Dubai. The Ethiopian delegation requested 7th freedom traffic rights from Belgian airports to Africa and the US. Officially, the Belgian delegation answered that it was not in a position to accept such request."

Its not 100pc correct, ethiopian is flying to more destinations but... why did belgium refuse more flight to the US and africa ?
Why can't we just open our airports like the rest of our economy.?

[sn26567]

Aircastle (a US leasing company) took redelivery of one B747-400F, serial 35235 (the one in Emirates colours), following lease with ASL Airlines Belgium.

[Konus]

Aircastle (a US leasing company) took redelivery of one B747-400F, serial 35235 (the one in Emirates colours), following lease with ASL Airlines Belgium.

Aircraft is former OO-THC.

What will happen with OO-THD: it will follow the same way ?

[sn26567]

FedEx took delivery of one B737-400, serial 25109, operated by ASL Airlines Belgium.

[Konus]

FedEx took delivery of one B737-400, serial 25109, operated by ASL Airlines Belgium.

Already 4 aircraft are in FedEx fleet inventory: OE-IAP (04/08), OE-IBW (18/08), OO-TNN (11/08) and OO-TNP (28/07).

A fifth aircraft in now in the paintshop at TLL (OO-TNO).

[sn26567]

ASL Airlines Belgium will continue to operate a B737-400F, serial 25109, for FedEx. The aircraft is actually owned by ASL Aviation Holdings (Ireland).

[Bracebrace]

Thing is... BECA is only a very small percentage of the aviation world but they try to impact negatively the whole thing, I understand they defend their bread, but there are limits !

Beca is currently the only "association" protecting pilot jobs in Belgium. Beca discusses Fedex aircraft (N-registered) with American pilots on American payscales taking over intra-european flights (illegal) that were previously performed by Belgian pilots on European registered aircraft (legal).

The only conclusion I can draw from this discussion here is that on an aviation related forum, pilots are treated like expensive waste that can be replaced be other nationalities. Unfortunately so can managers, so can groundcrew (engineers, loadmasters flying with the aircraft is nothing new). You end up with somebody to connect the groundpower, load and unload the aircaft. All else related to the flight is done outside of the country.

Disconnect the business from the local nationality, and you can move country immediatly...

Some people like to live on crumbs and blame the pilots....

[jan_olieslagers]

on an aviation related forum, pilots are treated like expensive waste

An aviation related forum is not the same thing as an aviators forum, more's the pity.

[Acid-drop]

As an aviation enthousiast, I like planes, I dont care much who flies them. Blame me
As a walloon and a belgian, I like to think we could expand and create jobs without middle age protectionist rules, blame me
Beeing down to earth, I like to think quite a few pilots can be hired by foreign airlines while beeing based in LGG and have a good life, prove me wrong...
And sorry, I dont see why there should be differences between a truck driver and a pilot

[jan_olieslagers]

I dont see why there should be differences between a truck driver and a pilot

In all friendship and with all respect: could that be because you are neither?
Holding the papers for both, I do see certain differences - cost-wise not least...

[Bracebrace]

Honestly, I read a lot of "thoughts" and "dreams" here, which I don't mind and therefore I don't react to them. I completely agree that aviation is not "property" of the ones making a living out of it. However, it becomes difficult for me, somebody who makes a living in aviation, to see "thoughts" and "dreams" take over our "reality". The reality in Belgian aviation is very harsh and hard, it is a world that has been struggling very hard for years and years, and nothing changes.

Beeing down to earth...

You might be down to earth, but the reality on earth is:
1) we don't create jobs anymore, we are selling them all. No more dispatchers in Belgium, no more loadmasters in Belgium, no more Belgian registered aircraft, no more AOC's in Belgium,... that's the future we are looking at if we continue like this.

2) foreign airlines don't hire crew to be based in Liège, otherwise American pilots wouldn't have to take our job. That's the whole point. American pilots are flying out of Liège. Foreign airlines are coming to Belgium with their own crews. Creating small bases with separate pilots is too expensive for the majority of the companies. If we want to fly for them we have to move our whole family abroad, even if we would like to fly from Brussels. Even commuting becomes impossible despite whatever contractor will say. You might become a contractor, but you will be an FO for life, surviving on temporary contracts all over the world. No future again.

3) The truck driver has work close to home, Belgian pilots have 3 airports: Brussels, Liège, Charleroi. All three are "overtaken" by foreign pilots. Percentage of truck drivers that have to move the family abroad, or divorce to keep a job? Close to 0%. Percentage of Belgian pilots with a Belgian future? No future again.

Enjoy OO aviation... your grandkids might never fly an OO anymore...

[Poiu]

Beca is currently the only "association" protecting pilot jobs in Belgium. Beca discusses Fedex aircraft (N-registered) with American pilots on American payscales taking over intra-european flights (illegal) that were previously performed by Belgian pilots on European registered aircraft

Why do you think it's illegal? I don't like it either, but it's NOT illegal.
Is it illegal for Belgian pilots to fly an OO aircraft between two US or two African cities? No it isn't, so why would the opposite be illegal?
The Belgian-US double taxation agreement even has a specific paragraph about it!

[Bracebrace]

Is it illegal for Belgian pilots to fly an OO aircraft between two US or two African cities?

Yes. If it involves payload (pax/cargo) loaded in US city A, delivered to US city B it is illegal. Cabotage - "8th/9th freedom" - is still illegal in the US or in a single African country (Africa has a lot of bilateral agreements, that's different).

[Acid-drop]

Seriously I dont get it.
Think of the port of Antwerp if only boat with belgian captains were allowed...

Enjoy OO aviation... your grandkids might never fly an OO anymore...

"I want to eat only belgian strawberries" emm what ? aviation is the last of the bubble were such a thinking is still possible and desired.