25-31/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

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lumumba
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Re: 25-26-27-28/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 12:35
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 12:14 ...
...I have the impression you don't want to understand that!
...
Lumumba, maybe almost all other people here are right? Maybe it's just you who don't want to understand what is going on?

Cumulated loss on 31st December 2017: -24.334.941 €. Do you understand what that means?
But again that's not the responsibility of the employees at all they have nothing to do with that.
This is the responsibility of the management!!!!
And the management cheated to long with them.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

b720
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by b720 »

Is it an open ended strike until the company collapses?
In the meantime BRU is half functioning. By the time another handler takes over etc that can take months.

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lumumba
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

b720 wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 13:54 Is it an open ended strike until the company collapses?
In the meantime BRU is half functioning. By the time another handler takes over etc that can take months.
That's frightening that's a point but that's the responsibility of Brussels Airport to accept to work with a company with a huge depth.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

b720
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by b720 »

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 14:00
b720 wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 13:54 Is it an open ended strike until the company collapses?
In the meantime BRU is half functioning. By the time another handler takes over etc that can take months.
That's frightening that's a point but that's the responsibility of Brussels Airport to accept to work with a company with a huge depth.
It is a company that goes back to 1949. Then became Belgavia and finally Aviapartner. They must have done things right to last that long.. I don’t know whose fault it that got us in this mess. The reputation of BRU is at stake as well as Brussels airlines actuallly.. even though they have nothing to do with this mess. I took an SN flight last night from GVA to BRU. Departure was delayed by 1h25 min. The cabin crew gave as an excuse the late arrival of the aircraft and the strike at BRU affecting many airlines!
Many pax in the plane missed their connection at BRU and had to spend the night at hotels around the airport..they attribute the whole mess (wrongly so) to the strike!

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

CTBke wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 12:57In Belgium it's not against the law, it's the grey zone and everyone has the right to go on strike

http://www.werk.belgie.be/defaultTab.aspx?id=518#
http://www.emploi.belgique.be/defaultTab.aspx?id=518
Thanks for the links, it was indeed informative, although the missing legal framework puzzles me a bit. But still:
Kennisgeving

Deze actie, staking of lock-out, dient voorafgaandelijk aangezegd te worden door een aangetekend schrijven gericht aan de voorzitter van het paritair (sub)comité of aan de werkgever(s) (of aan de werknemersorganisaties in geval van lock-out) betrokken in het conflict.
Vervolgens moet een zekere aanzeggingsperiode in acht genomen worden vooraleer effectief tot staking of lock-out mag overgegaan worden (vb. een week of 14 dagen).
Zowel de wijze als de termijn van kennisgeving worden meestal conventioneel vastgelegd in een CAO of in het huishoudelijk reglement van het paritair comité

Niet respecteren van procedure

Stakingen die uitgebroken zijn of lock-outs die gedaan worden zonder naleving van de voorziene procedure worden over het algemeen niet ondersteund door de representatieve werknemers- of werkgeversorganisaties.
Daarnaast wordt het krijgen van een syndicale premie vaak afhankelijk gesteld van het respecteren van de sociale vrede in de onderneming of in de sector.
That says basically, that a wildcat strike might be legally in the (dark) grey area - but morally it is unacceptable.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

Passenger
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

Vic Diesel wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 14:21
Kennisgeving
Deze actie, staking of lock-out, dient voorafgaandelijk aangezegd te worden door een aangetekend schrijven gericht aan de voorzitter van het paritair (sub)comité of aan de werkgever(s) (of aan de werknemersorganisaties in geval van lock-out) betrokken in het conflict.
Vervolgens moet een zekere aanzeggingsperiode in acht genomen worden vooraleer effectief tot staking of lock-out mag overgegaan worden (vb. een week of 14 dagen).
Zowel de wijze als de termijn van kennisgeving worden meestal conventioneel vastgelegd in een CAO of in het huishoudelijk reglement van het paritair comité

Niet respecteren van procedure
Stakingen die uitgebroken zijn of lock-outs die gedaan worden zonder naleving van de voorziene procedure worden over het algemeen niet ondersteund door de representatieve werknemers- of werkgeversorganisaties.
Daarnaast wordt het krijgen van een syndicale premie vaak afhankelijk gesteld van het respecteren van de sociale vrede in de onderneming of in de sector.
That says basically, that a wildcat strike might be legally in the (dark) grey area - but morally it is unacceptable.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
Actually, a wildcat strike is illegal untill the trade unions advise management/ownership that they support the strike. With this strike, this was done indeed - very soon after the wildcat strike started. The trade unions told management that the loaders strike was covered by a strike notice from... January 2018.

When the trade unions would have said to the wildcat strikers "...no, we do not support the strike because Aviapartner is in bad papers", the disruption would have been just one or two hours only.

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Vic Diesel
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Vic Diesel »

Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 14:49Actually, a wildcat strike is illegal untill the trade unions advise management/ownership that they support the strike. With this strike, this was done indeed - very soon after the wildcat strike started. The trade unions told management that the loaders strike was covered by a strike notice from... January 2018.

When the trade unions would have said to the wildcat strikers "...no, we do not support the strike because Aviapartner is in bad papers", the disruption would have been just one or two hours only.
In other words: trade unions want to support this strike... but only "kind of support it". Typical polit-speech...
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

Passenger
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

Vic Diesel wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:02
Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 14:49Actually, a wildcat strike is illegal untill the trade unions advise management/ownership that they support the strike. With this strike, this was done indeed - very soon after the wildcat strike started. The trade unions told management that the loaders strike was covered by a strike notice from... January 2018.

When the trade unions would have said to the wildcat strikers "...no, we do not support the strike because Aviapartner is in bad papers", the disruption would have been just one or two hours only.
In other words: trade unions want to support this strike... but only "kind of support it". Typical polit-speech...
From a press report, 26th October 2018: "...De staking van het personeel wordt gedekt door alle vakbonden, luidt het. Er liep nog een stakingsaanzegging sinds januari..."
https://www.hln.be/geld/economie/stakin ... ~a0c93a7e/

My translation: ...the ongoing strike is (legally) covered by all trade unions... The strike announcement dates from January...

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lumumba
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

But it change nothing I mean the situation is rotten for a while.
The management also did not what they signed for they could also be prosecuted....it was also not legal.
I have the impression that i have to right thing 10 times before somebody read it!
Last edited by lumumba on 29 Oct 2018, 15:28, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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luchtzak
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by luchtzak »

The management of baggage handler Aviapartner has sent a bailiff to the strikers. The trade unions would stop employees and block carts used on the tarmac. That is what De Tijd writes. (sorry, no time! google translate ;-) )

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/di ... ~a797e543/

flightlover
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by flightlover »

luchtzak wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:28 The management of baggage handler Aviapartner has sent a bailiff to the strikers. The trade unions would stop employees and block carts used on the tarmac. That is what De Tijd writes. (sorry, no time! google translate ;-) )

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/di ... ~a797e543/
Which is just a lie as far as I know. You'll hardly find any ramp workers of AP at the airport. Same for the cargo operations BTW.

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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 But it change nothing I mean the situation is rotten for a while.
Agree, but who's fault is that? Shareholders? Top management? Middle management? Ground force? We don't know, so "shared responsability" seems fair then.

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 I have the impression that i have to right thing 10 times before somebody read it!
No, we read what you write. But you fail to understand the gravity of the situation. Negative own assets 15 mio €. Close to 25 mio € reported loss. Close to 25 mio € short-time-debt for which there is not enough money. A lot of companies with better figures are declared bankrupt daily.

For a company that is so much in distress, a strike like this is a catastroph. Do I have to write that 10 times before you are willing to accept this?

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lumumba
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 16:46
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 But it change nothing I mean the situation is rotten for a while.
Agree, but who's fault is that? Shareholders? Top management? Middle management? Ground force? We don't know, so "shared responsability" seems fair then.

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 I have the impression that i have to right thing 10 times before somebody read it!
No, we read what you write. But you fail to understand the gravity of the situation. Negative own assets 15 mio €. Close to 25 mio € reported loss. Close to 25 mio € short-time-debt for which there is not enough money. A lot of companies with better figures are declared bankrupt daily.

For a company that is so much in distress, a strike like this is a catastroph. Do I have to write that 10 times before you are willing to accept this?
Sure I accept this this are numbers you can't discuss them but that's not the problem of the employees.
If like you said it's not viable anymore let it die .
But in any case you can't ask employees to work like slaves to save a company.
For sure the employees did there part and even more from there the frustration.
But the management did not keep there promises and did not suceed to make it work.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger »

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:22
Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 16:46
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 But it change nothing I mean the situation is rotten for a while.
Agree, but who's fault is that? Shareholders? Top management? Middle management? Ground force? We don't know, so "shared responsability" seems fair then.

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 I have the impression that i have to right thing 10 times before somebody read it!
No, we read what you write. But you fail to understand the gravity of the situation. Negative own assets 15 mio €. Close to 25 mio € reported loss. Close to 25 mio € short-time-debt for which there is not enough money. A lot of companies with better figures are declared bankrupt daily.

For a company that is so much in distress, a strike like this is a catastroph. Do I have to write that 10 times before you are willing to accept this?
Sure I accept this this are numbers you can't discuss them but that's not the problem of the employees.
Legacies from the past are the problem from all people working there. But even when I repeat that 10 times, you won't accept it.

Sure, people are going through a difficult time there, with heavy workload and unpleasant working conditions. But that applies for all people working there. Not the least for the CFO who has to find the money to pay the October salaries.

b720
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by b720 »

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:22
Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 16:46
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 But it change nothing I mean the situation is rotten for a while.
Agree, but who's fault is that? Shareholders? Top management? Middle management? Ground force? We don't know, so "shared responsability" seems fair then.

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 15:27 I have the impression that i have to right thing 10 times before somebody read it!
No, we read what you write. But you fail to understand the gravity of the situation. Negative own assets 15 mio €. Close to 25 mio € reported loss. Close to 25 mio € short-time-debt for which there is not enough money. A lot of companies with better figures are declared bankrupt daily.

For a company that is so much in distress, a strike like this is a catastroph. Do I have to write that 10 times before you are willing to accept this?
Sure I accept this this are numbers you can't discuss them but that's not the problem of the employees.
If like you said it's not viable anymore let it die .
But in any case you can't ask employees to work like slaves to save a company.
For sure the employees did there part and even more from there the frustration.
But the management did not keep there promises and did not suceed to make it work.
Seriously?

And they promised the moon? If there is no cash to pay it out then there is no cash!
If one does not care about the company one is working for then that person must leave and work elsewhere. One must care! And slave is a big word, make concessions if that saves the company. Everyone has a duty to do so.
They probably hope it goes busy so they get a better deal from another handler. Well I hope that they will not!
They have caused thousands of people a lot of money. And ruined many peoples’ holidays.

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lumumba
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:33
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:22
Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 16:46
Agree, but who's fault is that? Shareholders? Top management? Middle management? Ground force? We don't know, so "shared responsability" seems fair then.



No, we read what you write. But you fail to understand the gravity of the situation. Negative own assets 15 mio €. Close to 25 mio € reported loss. Close to 25 mio € short-time-debt for which there is not enough money. A lot of companies with better figures are declared bankrupt daily.

For a company that is so much in distress, a strike like this is a catastroph. Do I have to write that 10 times before you are willing to accept this?
Sure I accept this this are numbers you can't discuss them but that's not the problem of the employees.
Legacies from the past are the problem from all people working there. But even when I repeat that 10 times, you won't accept it.

Sure, people are going through a difficult time there, with heavy workload and unpleasant working conditions. But that applies for all people working there. Not the least for the CFO who has to find the money to pay the October salaries.
You make one mistake here the ground staf is not responsible for the strategy and the contracts.
They are not involved and they are payed much less the the management...
They are responsible for the flights to depart safely.
And it looks they did there best to be flexible but there is a limit and that's where we are.
The management did not succeed to make it work and the ground staff is exhausted.
Point now it looks it has to die and start again....
Last edited by lumumba on 29 Oct 2018, 21:18, edited 2 times in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by sean1982 »

lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 18:03
Passenger wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:33
lumumba wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 17:22

Sure I accept this this are numbers you can't discuss them but that's not the problem of the employees.
Legacies from the past are the problem from all people working there. But even when I repeat that 10 times, you won't accept it.

Sure, people are going through a difficult time there, with heavy workload and unpleasant working conditions. But that applies for all people working there. Not the least for the CFO who has to find the money to pay the October salaries.
You make one mistake here the ground staf is not responsible for the strategy and the contracts.
They are not involved and they are payed much less the the management...
They are responsible for the flights to depart safely.
And it looks they did there best to be flexible but there is limit and that's where we are.
The management did not succeed to make it work and the ground staff is exhausted.
Point now it looks it has to die and start again....
Hopefully with more loyal, different employees than the people who make their own company go bankrupt :roll:
Dont bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind

flightlover
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by flightlover »

The workers need to make concessions?
How do you call semi involuntary overtime because there is no one to finish the job even when your shift has ended??? How do you call working no-meal shifts day after day? How do you call working in understaffed teams?
How do you call rushing from one job to the other?

Should they come in and be happy to pay the employer for having a job?????

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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by TLspotting »

No flights handled to at least Wednesday 6:00
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

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Established02
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Re: 25-26-27-28-29/10/2018 Aviapartner strike at Brussels Airport

Post by Established02 »

flightlover wrote: 29 Oct 2018, 18:13 How do you call working no-meal shifts day after day?
I understand you already get a financial compensation for this, correct? At the same time, nothing prevents you from taking a snack, a sandwich or a drink with you in the van. You may be busy most of the time, but there is always a chance now and then to take a quick bite. This problem may occur regularly in certain periods, but it is not happening every day. Be aware that in many other job positions and industries, people face the same problem on a daily basis. Truck drivers eat behind their steering wheel while driving. Some office workers eat behind their computer while continuing their work. Obviously this is not healthy and desirable, but it is a consequence of the global economic rat race.

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