Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Boavida »

eurojet wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 10:16 Myself working in an industry where being owned as a subsidiary by a foreign entity is the norm, not the exception, I find the nativity of the Belgian public incredible. And honestly, I find that LH is still using a rather “soft hand”. IF you give away all the leverage you have over your owner, than you end up in a situation like this. Ah so Belgian .. short term strategy, zero sense of responsibility and lack of ambition .. As Leopold II said .. “small country, small minds” …
^^ So the same goes for Switzerland and Austria ?

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:06
Those who still dream about a take over by British Airways in 2008 for instance as some sort of much brighter alternative to Lufthansa's investment, would have either seen them close the shop completely in 2013, or at best be merged with vueling almost overnight and in full. No way they would have invested another €100M and given them 4 years to get back on their feet with ryanair announcing a base at their homebase, while building on their own brand.
Hahaha, what did they do with Aer Lingus then? While operating in Ryanairs backyard. They maintained the brand and invested in new long haul and short haul airplanes. Don’t talk about thing you don’t have a clue about please :roll:

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer »

Aer lingus wasn't virtually bankrupt when they bought them, as far as I know, nor needed urgently being recapitalized right before the fight of their life, like Brussels Airlines had to be.
Imagine Aer Lingus in a situation B.air was in at the end of 2013 and then ask yourself the question if IAG would foot all bills so they'd still be soldiering on some 5 years later znd under the same management: if you think they would, you need to get to know the corporate mentality of your current employer a fair bit better, and urgently, I'd say... :roll:

Anyway: good to see you around with your self proclaimed expertise.

However, clearly and once again, you got it all wrong as to what you said would happen, didn't you, and no surprise really, because you think far too much from an Anglo-Saxon point-of-view.
Strange how you never seem to learn from such embarrassing miscalculations, in fact.
I happen to know German corporate mentality pretty well and I try to think far more like them than you're able to do, but I admit that even I am sometimes surprised by just how softhanded they can come across.
Last edited by Inquirer on 06 Feb 2018, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 Aer lingus wasn't virtually bankrupt when they bought them, as far as I know, nor needed urgently being recapitalized right before the fight of their life, like Brussels Airlines had to be.
Really? You can use google right? Let’s look at their financial results before the take over. They weren’t nearly bankrupt indeed, but losing money by the bucket loads.
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 However, clearly and once again, you got it all wrong as to what you said would happen, didn't you, and no surprise really, because you think far too much from an Anglo-Saxon point-of-view.
Really, why have I got it wrong then? :)

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer »

sean1982 wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:52
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 Aer lingus wasn't virtually bankrupt when they bought them, as far as I know, nor needed urgently being recapitalized right before the fight of their life, like Brussels Airlines had to be.
Really? You can use google right? Let’s look at their financial results before the take over. They weren’t nearly bankrupt indeed, but losing money by the bucket loads.
Oh dear, if I need to start explaining that loosing money is something else than being bankrupt, you better subscribe to some elementary MBA introductionary classes...

I can only repeat this thought excercise for you:
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 Imagine Aer Lingus in a situation B.air was in at the end of 2013 and then ask yourself the question if IAG would foot all bills so they'd still be soldiering on some 5 years later under the same management: if you think they would, you need to get to know the corporate mentality of your current employer a fair bit better, and urgently, I'd say... :roll:

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 12:01
sean1982 wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:52
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 Aer lingus wasn't virtually bankrupt when they bought them, as far as I know, nor needed urgently being recapitalized right before the fight of their life, like Brussels Airlines had to be.
Really? You can use google right? Let’s look at their financial results before the take over. They weren’t nearly bankrupt indeed, but losing money by the bucket loads.
Oh dear, if I need to start explaining that loosing money is something else than being bankrupt, you better subscribe to some elementary MBA introductionary classes...

I can only repeat this thought excercise for you:
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:41 Imagine Aer Lingus in a situation B.air was in at the end of 2013 and then ask yourself the question if IAG would foot all bills so they'd still be soldiering on some 5 years later under the same management: if you think they would, you need to get to know the corporate mentality of your current employer a fair bit better, and urgently, I'd say... :roll:
And the answer is yes. Please don’t try and tell me what IAG’s business strategy is, I’m a manager for them :roll:

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer »

Yeah, we already all know that since you tell us every time almost: congratulations on it, once again.
As to your answer itself: I'll leave it to each individual reader here to judge for himself the veracity of your reply...

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 12:12 Yeah, we already all know that since you tell it every time almost: congratulations on it, once again.
Actually, no I don’t. Quote me every post where I specifically said it? It does seem to annoy you a lot. Part of my business project is following up Europe’s aviation scene btw ... just saying

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CTBke »

and can we get back on topic please? thanks
Citybird
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Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer »

Sir, it does not annoy me the slightest, but I fail to see why you think it should give you any extra credibity? Clearly you feel for yourself you are often struggling to come accross as anything convincing in these discussions. Maybe rather than trying to overbluff people you dont know at all with your professional background, you might consider the fact for a minute that you're not the only person in the world who has set some initial steps on the ladder of hierarchy and that some Belgians actually hold very senior positions at multinationals far bigger than your employer and that they may just be interested in aviation too and thus come over here from time to time, shedding some light and sharing their point-of-view too.
Not to be disrespectful to you, sir, but just saying that the chance that you'd actually be reporting (via others even) to several people who occasionally post here to be far bigger than them ever having to report to you, should they decide to take up equivalent positions they now hold, at your employer.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 12:43 Sir, it does not annoy me the slightest, but I fail to see why you think it should give you any extra credibity? Clearly you feel for yourself you are often struggling to come accross as anything convincing in these discussions. Maybe rather than trying to overbluff people you dont know at all with your professional background, you might consider the fact for a minute that you're not the only person in the world who has set some initial steps on the ladder of hierarchy and that some Belgians actually hold very senior positions at multinationals far bigger than your employer and that they may just be interested in aviation too and thus come over here from time to time, shedding some light and sharing their point-of-view too.
Not to be disrespectful to you, sir, but just saying that the chance that you'd actually be reporting (via others even) to several people who occasionally post here to be far bigger than them ever having to report to you, should they decide to take up equivalent positions they now hold, at your employer.
Just search your posts and analysis about Brussels airlines over the last couple of years and mine. I rest my case. “Your position on the ladder” doesn’t interest me in the slightest (and neither does mine)

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 11:06 They just seem to want to finally run the place they own and which has already costed them a small fortune, themselves. And they apparently want to do it in order to run the place a bit more rational than it has been done so far, meaning more focus on their core businesses and strenghts, and more emphasis on making use of logical synergies which so far have been refused to be considered for no obvious reason but the almost childish desire to do all things alone, even if it means doing pretty much the same things twice: eurowings' business model as of today is pretty much that of brussels airlines in fact, apart from some details, or vice versa, as you wish: their apparent refusal not to call themselves a hybrid airline -while they really are- is just as childish as a reluctance to work with them because of that.
I fail to see where the management went wrong actually: SN expanded largely in the last few years, both in terms of destinations and seats capacity. Sure they didn't make a lot of money but still they made a small profit, which isn't so bad when you expand your activity with little means to start with; you need to create the business before reaping the profits, don't you. Is EW so profitable for the moment?

And the refusal to "make use of local synergies" isn't so obvious, imho. They made the TCB arrangement which shoud be a win-win project and they accepted the EW operation from DUS, maybe reluctantly- I don't know about that- but they did. I think Gustin was right to defend the scheme he believed in; every manager should do that. Maybe he was a bit too adamant in doing so, if you follow what Davignon said about irreconcilable personnalities.

Anyway, as I said before:
convair wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 00:35 Otoh, Gustin has probably given SN most of what he could bring and it's not a bad moment to make a management change. And when Christina Foerster was given the Commercial job last year, coming straight from the LH cradle, Gustin must have understood the purpose of that move.
And, maybe, Gustin realizing that he was going to be axed anyway tried to go as far as possible with his plans.

SabenaForever
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by SabenaForever »

sean1982 wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 13:02
Inquirer wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 12:43 Sir, it does not annoy me the slightest, but I fail to see why you think it should give you any extra credibity? Clearly you feel for yourself you are often struggling to come accross as anything convincing in these discussions. Maybe rather than trying to overbluff people you dont know at all with your professional background, you might consider the fact for a minute that you're not the only person in the world who has set some initial steps on the ladder of hierarchy and that some Belgians actually hold very senior positions at multinationals far bigger than your employer and that they may just be interested in aviation too and thus come over here from time to time, shedding some light and sharing their point-of-view too.
Not to be disrespectful to you, sir, but just saying that the chance that you'd actually be reporting (via others even) to several people who occasionally post here to be far bigger than them ever having to report to you, should they decide to take up equivalent positions they now hold, at your employer.
Just search your posts and analysis about Brussels airlines over the last couple of years and mine. I rest my case. “Your position on the ladder” doesn’t interest me in the slightest (and neither does mine)
Please, fight your disputes in private messages. Nobody cares. This is about Brussels Airlines, nothing else. thanks

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij »

SabenaForever wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 13:16 Please, fight your disputes in private messages. Nobody cares. This is about Brussels Airlines, nothing else. thanks
Thank-you SabenaForever!!!!

Stij

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by CTBke »

What is likely going to happen with the wetlease contracts SN has at this moment ? ( BMI and WX) Will Lufthansa replace it with their own metal from Cityline, the Q400's from LGW or just keep it ?
Citybird
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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

CTBke wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 14:20 What is likely going to happen with the wetlease contracts SN has at this moment ? ( BMI and WX) Will Lufthansa replace it with their own metal from Cityline, the Q400's from LGW or just keep it ?
I assume SN has contracts with them for a certain period, so they will go on as SN still legally exists as a belgian company.
After that, SN will have several options: renew the contract(s); use other sub-contractors; use LH metal; drop these lines etc...

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Av24.be wrote: 05 Feb 2018, 13:40 Congolese civil aviation authorities have decided to reduce the daily Brussels Airlines flights to Kinshasa to 4 per week with immediate effect..
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufth ... te-effect/
Update and opinion Radio Okapi: "...Le plus grand perdant, c’est le Congolais..."
https://www.radiookapi.net/2018/02/06/ ... s-analyste

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

Ansett wrote: 06 Feb 2018, 15:30
The fifty or so Belgian captains of industry who signed a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymakers should have put money on the table when it was necessary to keep SN Belgian, but nobody was prepared to take the smallest financial risk except LH. They own SN now. It's their property. They can do as they like (even if we don't like it).
They didn’t sign a letter of support for Gustin and De Raeymaker, they signed a letter to support a strong airline with a base in Brussels.

Deejay
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Deejay »

hello
i am new here, and do not have any professional experience in the airline business. so, sorry if I ask silly questions ....
nevertheless, i am an airline customer, and FTL with M&M...
i acquired this status mainly with LX and OS, and I must tell you that if I have the choice between one of these two and SN, i do not hesitate, I take the first choice.
As a customer, I do not believe in the so called "hybrid" model = normal price, but low service
Why can't SN evolve to something like the two other cousins; and have the low cost side of the hybrid model evolve to EW ?
Have the people at LH said that there is no place for a belgian based premium carrier, and why can they operate premium carriers in ZRH and VIE, and not possible in the capital of the EU, strange, no ?

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

Bralo20 wrote: 05 Feb 2018, 20:02 On the other hand, the whole thing is quite weird. It's like they adopted Gustin's vision for the future but that they went ahead with the terminations to save face. The fact that both "support" the transition suggests that they probably got a huge bonus to go away without making to much fuss.

Could be that the board meeting went against Spohr's wishes after all, we'll probably never know...

Just saying ;)
I don’t think so, tomorrow ‘s news will tell us. I just had a look at my crystal ball: EW will grow in Brussels, SN will be long haul only, job losses in the offices are unavoidable.

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