BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

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Yuqu12
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Yuqu12 »

nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:27
Yuqu12 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:19
b720 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 00:44 RIP Air Belgium?
I think the biggest victim of this all could be VLM, as they planned to start this route. Air Belgium would like to start Hong Kong if I'm not mistaken.
Shenzhen and Hong Kong is pretty much the same thing!
Why would an inhabitant of Hong Kong go to Shengzen to fly to BRU if they can fly from Hong Kong and vice versa? The fact that the Chinese companies are connecting both cities with BRU is probably a signal that these cities are different markets.

nordikcam
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by nordikcam »

Yuqu12 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:38
nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:27
Yuqu12 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:19

I think the biggest victim of this all could be VLM, as they planned to start this route. Air Belgium would like to start Hong Kong if I'm not mistaken.
Shenzhen and Hong Kong is pretty much the same thing!
Why would an inhabitant of Hong Kong go to Shengzen to fly to BRU if they can fly from Hong Kong and vice versa? The fact that the Chinese companies are connecting both cities with BRU is probably a signal that these cities are different markets.
Yes. I was not talking about the market ... I was talking about the distance between the two cities...!

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lumumba
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by lumumba »

I think the two cities share the same market but Hainan is based in Shenzhen that's all.
The two airports are 40km away in some parts of Hong Kong it's easier to drive to Shenzhen airport!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Stij
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Stij »

lumumba wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 16:09 I think the two cities share the same market but Hainan is based in Shenzhen that's all.
The two airports are 40km away in some parts of Hong Kong it's easier to drive to Shenzhen airport!
Yes, but it's not that easy... for China, we need a visum, for HK not. Maybe a transfer by boat could work without a visa...

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CTBke
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by CTBke »

nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:31
travellover wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:22 Good news. Could SN code-share with HU on this SZX new route? Or PVG? Even HKG with CX?
I think they can not have code share since they have to fly over Russian airspace ...
What does the flight routing has to do with a possible codeshare yes or no ? they're already codesharing the Beijing with them
Citybird
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DannyVDB
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by DannyVDB »

Yet, I think they are different markets and destinations in their own right ...

Don't forget you have, also quite close, Guangzhou.

All these cities, although 'close' to each other have a massive population of around 34 million people:

Guangzhou: 14 million
Shenzhen: 12 million
Hong Kong: 8 million

Many airlines also fly to Guangzhou airport. All of them can tap into the same big 'region'. But they also can co-exist easily in my opinion and have a specific focus.

Good to see yet another Asian destination at BRU. Also curious whether they will increase the frequency to Shanghai ...

Cheers,
Danny

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Atlantis
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Atlantis »

BRU is getting a very nice long haul wave now in the evening with the new flight to Shenzhen. What is still missing in this evening long haul wave is the flight to New York. Where is United in this story?? Or maybe the new flight to Houston.

It has potential now with flights in the evening to the Middle East, Far East and Africa

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RoMax
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by RoMax »

CTBke wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 17:15
nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:31 I think they can not have code share since they have to fly over Russian airspace ...
What does the flight routing has to do with a possible codeshare yes or no ? they're already codesharing the Beijing with them
Codeshares are (or can be) also subject to the traffic rights and in this case the trans-Siberian overflying rights. Simply said Russia is Russia... There is a conflict as old as the bankruptcy of Sabena, which caused the Russian automorities losing money (open debts that were never paid back) and in the current situation SN or actually Belgium reached a point where they don't allow further expansion of the traffic rights because of those remaining Sabena debts that nobody wants to pay. That's the very single reason why SN is not codesharing on the BRU-NRT flights of ANA.

Of course codesharing yes or no depends on many reasons, but even if both Airlines agree on the commercial terms, it can be blocked in such a silly way.

brabel
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by brabel »

RoMax wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 18:41
CTBke wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 17:15
nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:31 I think they can not have code share since they have to fly over Russian airspace ...
What does the flight routing has to do with a possible codeshare yes or no ? they're already codesharing the Beijing with them
Codeshares are (or can be) also subject to the traffic rights and in this case the trans-Siberian overflying rights. Simply said Russia is Russia... There is a conflict as old as the bankruptcy of Sabena, which caused the Russian automorities losing money (open debts that were never paid back) and in the current situation SN or actually Belgium reached a point where they don't allow further expansion of the traffic rights because of those remaining Sabena debts that nobody wants to pay. That's the very single reason why SN is not codesharing on the BRU-NRT flights of ANA.

Of course codesharing yes or no depends on many reasons, but even if both Airlines agree on the commercial terms, it can be blocked in such a silly way.
Can and will it ever be solved then?

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sn26567
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 »

brabel wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 20:26
RoMax wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 18:41
CTBke wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 17:15
What does the flight routing has to do with a possible codeshare yes or no ? they're already codesharing the Beijing with them
Codeshares are (or can be) also subject to the traffic rights and in this case the trans-Siberian overflying rights. Simply said Russia is Russia... There is a conflict as old as the bankruptcy of Sabena, which caused the Russian automorities losing money (open debts that were never paid back) and in the current situation SN or actually Belgium reached a point where they don't allow further expansion of the traffic rights because of those remaining Sabena debts that nobody wants to pay. That's the very single reason why SN is not codesharing on the BRU-NRT flights of ANA.

Of course codesharing yes or no depends on many reasons, but even if both Airlines agree on the commercial terms, it can be blocked in such a silly way.
Can and will it ever be solved then?
I think it is not only an issue of old Sabena debts. There are also the EU sanctions against Russia after the annexation of Crimea and the counter-sanctions by Russia.

Eventually, the tempers will cool down and a solution will be found. Money can alleviate a lot of problems!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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RoMax
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by RoMax »

sn26567 wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 22:14
brabel wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 20:26 Can and will it ever be solved then?
I think it is not only an issue of old Sabena debts. There are also the EU sanctions against Russia after the annexation of Crimea and the counter-sanctions by Russia.

Eventually, the tempers will cool down and a solution will be found. Money can alleviate a lot of problems!
The EU sanctions don't help, but this is quite a Belgian issue. It has never been easy for SN to get the desired traffic rights from Russia (it took many many years before they got both the desired number of rights to Moscow and to St Petersburg, instead of 'one or the other'). But yes as the general relationship between Russia and the EU cooled, the willingness from Russian authorities didn't increase and a point of "until here and not further" was reached. They use this old issue whenever it suits them while at other times they don't seem to care (=they see other interests).
Because indeed diplomatic and economic relations are not static, they evolve, they get tense, they cool down, etc. and at some point the relationship will be good enough again, quite sure about that as well.

But that all doesn't mean Hainan doesn't bring in transfer pax for SN on those routes. SN doesn't codeshare with ANA, but there are plenty of their passengers on board of SN's flights. The same with Hainan. You can check their website, you can for example perfectly book a Shanghai-Kinshasa ticket with Hainan (which then routes you via BRU onwards with SN). The difference is of course that SN can't do the same with selling a FIH-BRU-PVG ticket.

nordikcam
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by nordikcam »

CTBke wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 17:15
nordikcam wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:31
travellover wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:22 Good news. Could SN code-share with HU on this SZX new route? Or PVG? Even HKG with CX?
I think they can not have code share since they have to fly over Russian airspace ...
What does the flight routing has to do with a possible codeshare yes or no ? they're already codesharing the Beijing with them
I think that this is a retaliation of Russia to the sanctions policy conducted by the European Union against Russia. Before the invasion of Crimea, SN had and continues to have an agreement with HU on Peking but could not obtain it for Shanghai...those flights began after the "Crimea" problem. Same for the flight with ANA on Tokyo ( SN codeshares with ANA on european routes) and undoubtedly the same for Shenzhen and HKG ... So SN has an agreement with HU on Peking which dates from before the sanctions and can not obtain any more from the Russians of new traffic rights.
And not only SN but other european companies too ! We have to wait "new times" between Russia and UE.

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Yuqu12
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Yuqu12 »

If Belgium allows more rights for Russian companies to land here, they'll be able to fly over Russia again. At least that's how KLM solved the problem :D

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Av24.be
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Av24.be »

In Winter 2017/2018 Eurowings operated two flights between Brussels and Berlin Tegel, avoiding a nightstop for the Brussels Airlines crew. The flights are now back at Brussels Airlines from Summer 2018.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufth ... nd-berlin/

Bralo20
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Bralo20 »

May we assume the Eurowings experiment wasn't positive?

convair
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by convair »

Bralo20 wrote: 11 Jan 2018, 19:29 May we assume the Eurowings experiment wasn't positive?
Or they'll need their planes for the summer season.

pitrixplanespotting
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by pitrixplanespotting »

Can we expect Emirates to fly 1 daily with the Airbus A380 from summer 18? Or maybe 2 daily (1 A380 and 1 B77W)? Or is the A380 for winter 18? Anyone an idea? ;-)

nordikcam
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by nordikcam »

And when will the first new bridges for A380 be installed?

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travellover
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by travellover »

A380 is aimed at BRU. It would be surprising if EK gave their evening flight up after the recent and successful? lauch last october. Any loadfactors - passengers and cargo - for both flights between BRU and their megahub DXB?
If the twice daily demand confirms to be high, maybe EK will upgrade one of both flights to an A380 in 2018 or 2019 ?
Cheers

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Darjeeling
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Re: BRU Summer 2018: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Darjeeling »

At the moment they have very healthy loads on both flights. Especially in the premium cabins.

The two dailies allow them to cover more departure/arrival waves from/to in DXB.

Many friends pilots who commute in or to BRU on both EK flights often tell me it's very difficult to find empty seats even in Y. So they need to travel from CDG / AMS / DUS...

If the A380 ever comes up, it'll be to replace one of the two 777s. EK almost never downscales its frequencies...

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