Swiss Transferring Cameroon Service to Brussels Airlines

[SabenaForever]

Swiss will ends it service to West-Africa. They will transfer there Cameroon sevice via Brussels Airlines!


Schedule from 25 March:

Brussels – Douala – Kinshasa
SN351 BRU1055 – 1645DLA1745 – 1935FIH 333 1
SN352 FIH2105 – 2255DLA2355 – 0735+1BRU 333 1

This routing reduces from 3 to 1 weekly

Brussels – Douala – Yaounde
SN371 BRU1020 – 1610DLA1710 – 1755NSI 333 x1
SN372 NSI1925 – 2010DLA2130 – 0515+1BRU 333 x1

Yaounde service will increase from 2 to 6 weekly, however will see the flight operating via Douala instead of nonstop

Brussels – Kinshasa 4 of 7 weekly service will be operating as nonstop flights in both direction
SN357 BRU1040 – 1740FIH 333 x137
SN358 FIH2030 – 0530+1BRU 333 x137

brussels airlines will continue to operate 2 weekly Brussels – Luanda – Kinshasa – Brussels SN359 service with A330-300.


source: airlineroute.net

[tolipanebas]

So the long haul network reshuffle within the LH airlines group is finally taking shape: it's long overdue.

In return for these 2 routes from LX, SN was said to give up ACC in favour of a daily LH flight there, BTW...

Regardless, it is an -albeit indirect- positive confirmation that LH is indeed committed to SN in the long run, as Cameroon is known to be a lucrative destination: definitely positive news.

[Flanker]

When I saw the title I had some hope but then when you look at the detail of the "transfer", it's easy to figure out that this looks more like Swiss stopping service to Cameroon than transferring it to SN.

Net capacity increases of the operation:
NSI +0 (2 direct becoming 4 tag-ons)
DLA +1 (3 tag-ons becoming 5 tag-ons)
FIH +1 (2 tag-ons becoming direct)

Swiss operates 3 to 4 weekly triangles on DLA-NSI.
My opinion is that rather than a transfer, this is just SN naturally increasing frequencies on DLA and capacity on FIH in line with continuing (slow) expansions in Africa and LX just stopping Cameroon.
Less competition, maybe, but it took them 4 years to figure out that it's not efficient to compete on Cameroon within the same group. That makes one wonder...

[lumumba]

That Swiss stop to fly to Cameroun is strange to me I regulary go there and the Swiss flights are often full c and y. But I remember Air france did the same with KLM! But for us it will be easier to transfer.

[b720]

however the cameroon market will suffer a serious downgrade in product by this 'transfer'.

[BigJets]

Do not forget that airlines that want to fly to Douala MUST also fly to Yaounde. Cameroon forces all airlines who fly to their country to operate both routes to stimulate it's capital city (town) Yaounde.
When Swiss stops flying to Cameroon, it will only force one of the carriers to fly the route and improve the remaining airline's yield.
No airline really wants to fly to Yaounde. The big money is to be made in Douala.

[tolipanebas]

When I saw the title I had some hope but then when you look at the detail of the "transfer", it's easy to figure out that this looks more like Swiss stopping service to Cameroon than transferring it to SN.

I know for you the glass is always empty when it is actually half full, but it seems that here you're even declaring it empty when it is filled up almost to the top!
Indeed, I suggest you have a very good look at the schedule again, because you've clearly misread it completely and automatically assumed what would best fit your pessimistic reading of events!

Net capacity increases of the operation:
NSI +0 (2 direct becoming 4 tag-ons)

Currently, there may be 2 direct flights per week to and from NSI in the SN timetable allright, but they are not just serving NSI, you know?
SN353/4 to NSI is actually routing an incredible BRU-NSI-FIH-NSI-BRU, so NSI is served 2 times weekly in combination with FIH and thus sharing its capacity with FIH too.
NSI will be served 6 times weekly in future in a much leaner triangular with DLA, so that is a HUGE capacity jump indeed! In short:NSI goes from 2 shared frequencies to 6 shared frequencies per week.

Net capacity increases of the operation:
DLA +1 (3 tag-ons becoming 5 tag-ons)

Again, read the timetables correctly.
Currently SN351/2 to DLA routes 3 times weekly a multilegged BRU-DLA-FIH-DLA-BRU, thus serving DLA 3 times weekly nonstop both ways, but in combination with FIH and thus sharing its capacity with FIH too.
In future, DLA will be served daily through operating 6 times weekly triangular BRU-DLA-NSI-BRU and 1 weekly multilegged BRU-DLA-FIH-DLA-BRU, so that means that DLA sees a capacity increase from 3 shared frequencies to 7 shared frequencies per week!

Net capacity increases of the operation:
FIH +1 (2 tag-ons becoming direct)

Again, that's wrong!
There's currently not a single direct flight to FIH from BRU and there are only 2 non-stop flights from FIH thanks to the the twice weekly triangular BRU-LAD-FIH-BRU flight, all other flights to and from FIH route through a destination in Cameroon (either NSI or DLA) on both ways!
Sorry to say, but is clearly shows from your remarks above that you haven't understood this!
In future, FIH will be served 4 times per week non-stop, next to a 1 weekly frequency which will route through DLA as before as well as the 2 triangular flights in combination with LAD, thus giving FIH 4 non-stop flights per week to FIH and even 6 non-stop flights per week from FIH.
Again, that's a significant capacity jump for the route, more so even as here it isn't due to a transfer of pax from LX!

Swiss operates 3 to 4 weekly triangles on DLA-NSI.

That's the only part of your post remotely correct: as you can see from the explation above, the entire capacity is transferred to SN in BRU indeed, which takes the occasion to cut FIH lose and increase capacity there too in the same time.

My opinion is that rather than a transfer, this is just SN naturally increasing frequencies on DLA and capacity on FIH in line with continuing (slow) expansions in Africa and LX just stopping Cameroon.

Naturally increasing frequencies!?! Let's keep it simple for all to understand, shall we?
This is what you'll see happening as from the end of March next year:
NSI goes from 2 to 6 triangular flights per week, so plus 4
DLA goes from 3 to 7 triangular flights per week, so plus 4
FIH goes from 2 to 6 non-stop per week, so plus 4
all while LX is axing its 4 triangular flights per week to DLA and NSI...
if that isn't a straight-out transfer, then I don't know what is!

Quite frankly, if you're serious with your comments, I don't know what you've been smoking!

[airbuske]

however the cameroon market will suffer a serious downgrade in product by this 'transfer'.

Why? After the cabin refurbishment they will offer the same product

[lumumba]

Do not forget that airlines that want to fly to Douala MUST also fly to Yaounde. Cameroon forces all airlines who fly to their country to operate both routes to stimulate it's capital city (town) Yaounde.
When Swiss stops flying to Cameroon, it will only force one of the carriers to fly the route and improve the remaining airline's yield.
No airline really wants to fly to Yaounde. The big money is to be made in Douala.

That's not true for RAM and SAA?

[shockcooling]

Why? After the cabin refurbishment they will offer the same product

Really the same? Because the LX product is :thumbup: , more info on that Ppp-lease....

[b720]

indeed LX product by far superior.. even more so than the LH product..

[OO-ITR]

Why? After the cabin refurbishment they will offer the same product

Really the same? Because the LX product is :thumbup: , more info on that Ppp-lease....

Well it will be because cabin upgrade will be exactly the same product as LX !

[RoMax]

Hahaha, Flanker, when I read your post this morning it was really a 'good' start of the day... Funny to see how you can turn facts around so much that it suits your non-SN/LH Group ideas.
I'm not going to comment on your whole post as Tolipanebas already did this, but I hope you realise that your post was completely wrong...

About the LX, SN product. The seats of SN will be indeed (almost) the same as with LX (at least for business, don't know for economy). But that doesn't really mean the product of SN as a whole is simular. I think many business travellers between Europe (and VS) and Cameroon are not really happy to see LX ending the service, hopefully SN can offer a service wich is high enough to meet their demands once SN has the new interior on their long haul fleet.

[Passenger]

For those only comparing the quality of the seats and/or the beauty of the interior, it may be a downgrading. But for passengers, that is not what counts. Seems there a lot of people here who don't have to pay for their flights and/or who don't get in contact with passengers. So let me give you the view from the passengers:

1. most deciding factor is the routing. A non stop flight is top - second comes a direct flight - and far behind comes a stopover. BRU-DLA is a 200% upgrading for Belgian passengers, compared to BRU-ZRH/ZRH-DLA.

2. second deciding factor is the choice in flight dates.

3. third comes the seat pitch in Economy Class, and Swiss and Brussels Airlines are comparable. Seat pitch in Business Class can differ, but that is not relevant as SN's C-class is fair enough.

4. then comes the rest: quality of the airport, check-in, parking, general perception, IFE, ...

Back op topic: DLA going from 3 to 7 weekly flights is an upgrading for Belgian passengers. It's a downgrading for Swiss passengers as they have to change aircraft. And for all other passengers, it's also an upgrading because it changes the possible flight days from 3 to 7.

For those who disagree : please also advise for which airline you are working. Because it's becoming very clear meanwhile that some are working for SN's competition.

[sn-remember]

An impressive increase ...
If I read well, Cameroon/congo shifts from 7/w to 13/w
Wish them success ..

I hope they can keep ACC though ..
In fact I think BRU-ACC-LOS-BRU could work.
I know.. again Lh's turf .. but Nigeria and Ghana are 2 key makts in AFI. They represent roughly 2/3 of the continent's air demand, SA ans NA excluded. So hopefully there should be place for 2 *A carriers there ?
BTW, LX scrapping LOS must create a void too ...

Principles of route structure rationalising between alliance partners need carefull application ...
For instance, LX run a near daily flight to NBO while SN also. I don't see any of them abandoning it.
Although yealds are not so high and demand giving signs of weakening.

Any thoughts ?

[andorra-airport]

1. most deciding factor is the routing. A non stop flight is top - second comes a direct flight - and far behind comes a stopover. BRU-DLA is a 200% upgrading for Belgian passengers, compared to BRU-ZRH/ZRH-DLA.

I don't agree. For the general public the most important factor is the price they have to pay for the ticket. Which includes often 1 or more stop(s), yes. (and which many people are not aware of, when booked)

[Passenger]

1. most deciding factor is the routing. A non stop flight is top - second comes a direct flight - and far behind comes a stopover. BRU-DLA is a 200% upgrading for Belgian passengers, compared to BRU-ZRH/ZRH-DLA.

I don't agree. For the general public the most important factor is the price they have to pay for the ticket. Which includes often 1 or more stop(s), yes. (and which many people are not aware of, when booked)

Indeed, you are right. But I was only referring to routing, upgrading and quality of aircraft.

The general perception of safety is even more important then price. Example: imagine you have to choose between a nonstop flight BRU-FIH with Hewa Bora, or a stopover routing LH BRU-FRA/FRA-FIH... A poll would be nice to see who would fly what...

[Darjeeling]

LOS and ACC are both in overcapacity cases, yields are plummeting. Plus the fact the Gulf carriers are pushing hard there (Even LH group is struggling in ACC). Especially LOS. People don't hesitate to fly with GCC carriers even to the UK if they can fly with a prestigious carrier like EK with a shopping stop at DXB airport as long as the fare is reasonable.

You also have the U.S carriers that fly/will fly non-stop there at relatively interesting fares.

No, I'd like SN to expand in more "rare" territories like Gabon, Congo-Brazza, Niger,...

Plus I remain convinced that a flight to Guangzhou would have helped them dramatically to fill their planes. AFI-Asia is a key market you can't afford to neglect. Look now they depend on HU's fanciful strategies and PVG is dropped.

That being said, LX handing Cameroon over to SN is an excellent news and a blow for those who said a few days ago that LH would quickly dump SN. Also more n-s to FIH is a key for the SN/AF battle there.

[134flyer]

For those only comparing the quality of the seats and/or the beauty of the interior, it may be a downgrading.

As said by others, after the installation of the new seats (and C seats will apparently be the same as LX), it won't be a downgrade, except no F on SN aircraft.

Here some comments from a Flyertalker about Cameroon bound pax on his CDG-ZRH flights. First in regard to LX handling at CDG some time ago, and then in regard to the news of the transfer of the Cameroon flights from LX to SN.

And then there is the flight where everything seems to be allowed: LX 633, leaving 09h50. That flight connects in Zurich to the LX flight to Douala and Yaoundé and is very popular with the Cameroonian diaspora in Paris. Whilst I congratulate Swiss for the success of this flight, the impact on operations is important and not acceptable: pax for that flight always come LOADED with hand luggage. Flying in Economy, one often sees them with two wheeled suitcases, a backpack and a handbag. There is of course no way for all that stuff to fit on the plane. The cabin staff have to have endless discussions with those passengers, the bags then get sent to the plane's belly. Result: the plane is delayed. I take that flight very often, and over the course of the last couple of months - i.e. heavy travel season when all of Cameroon-Paris seems to head home to Cameroon-Douala the flight has been delayed almost EVERY time by anything between 20 and 40 minutes. Why do people like me have to suffer from delays only because ground personnel lets those pax get away with taking all their belongings on board? Unacceptable.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-in ... dback.html

Swiss will no longer service DLA and NSI in summer timetable season 2012. Instead, brussels airlines will serve these destinations more often than presently.

Personally I do not regret this at all. I was often on the feeder flight from CDG to ZRH which at times had up to 80 pax connecting to the Cameroon flights, many (actually most) of them loaden like heavy transport donkeys with stuff they tried to get through as "hand luggage" but which even as check luggage was pretty, well, "generous" in dimensions. The endless discussions between crew and pax and the time wasted until space was found or not found often led to delays. Maybe SN has more experience in dealing with this type of pax.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-in ... 012-a.html

Maybe SN should still consider to acquire a fleet of Q400s to transport the excess baggage. Sorry, couldn’t resist

[tolipanebas]

ROTFL, that is really hilarious and so spot on.

"loaded like heavy transport donkeys, trying to get through all sorts of stuff as hand luggage which even as checked-in luggage have pretty 'generous' dimensions!"

I can not tell you the number of times I've seen pax empty their 2nd or 3rd piece of handluggage at the gate, only to put on literally everything that was in there just to be able to take it with them on the flight! Crazy sight to see pax come on board with 3 shirts and 2 suits on when you're going to DLA where it's 30°C and extremely humid!

Oh well, what do we know about it all?
The leaflet from Bombardier on the Q400 mentions hold capacity is more than ample for the number of pax, so surely that must be the case then, right?